President Obama's Notre Dame address

Did anyone else watch? I was impressed by his words and those of the university president, Father Jenkins.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/16/obama.notre.dame/index.html

Father Jenkins earned an honor from the graduating seniors.

http://newsinfo.nd.edu/news/11730-2009-graduates-honor-father-jenkins-with-senior-class-fellow-award

I'm more of a action kind of guy... Words are meaningless without action.. And so far Obama's actions haven't matched his words.. But he does make a pretty speech...

Annie Oakley wrote:

Did anyone else watch? I was impressed by his words and those of the university president, Father Jenkins.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/16/obama.notre.dame/index.html

Father Jenkins earned an honor from the graduating seniors.

http://newsinfo.nd.edu/news/11730-2009-graduates-honor-father-jenkins-with-senior-class-fellow-award

It was very bright and I love his sense of humor. He can actually put together a beautiful, uplifting speech without stumbling all over himself and looking like a drunken middle school dropout. lol. I do miss Bush though. It was so entertaining watching him try to sound intelligent but I know it wasn't all his fault. He was basically Howdy Doody and Dick Cheney was the one running the country from his private luxury bunker. lol

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'm more of a action kind of guy... Words are meaningless without action.. And so far Obama's actions haven't matched his words.. But he does make a pretty speech...

It's how he got elected...

No, I refuse to watch any of it. Count me as one of those that felt he had no business being there.

Judge Roy Bean wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'm more of a action kind of guy... Words are meaningless without action.. And so far Obama's actions haven't matched his words.. But he does make a pretty speech...

It's how he got elected...

No, I refuse to watch any of it. Count me as one of those that felt he had no business being there.

Okay, Judge, I've got to ask you...no problem when President Bush spoke in 2001? The church is firmly against the death penalty, too, yet Bush was firmly pro-death penalty.

If you don't listen to Obama's speech, do yourself a favor and listen to Father Jenkins speech. It's one of the best I have heard in a long, long time. Judge, per our conversation on "dialogue," you would find common ground with it.

gringaloca wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

Did anyone else watch? I was impressed by his words and those of the university president, Father Jenkins.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/16/obama.notre.dame/index.html

Father Jenkins earned an honor from the graduating seniors.

http://newsinfo.nd.edu/news/11730-2009-graduates-honor-father-jenkins-with-senior-class-fellow-award

It was very bright and I love his sense of humor. He can actually put together a beautiful, uplifting speech without stumbling all over himself and looking like a drunken middle school dropout. lol. I do miss Bush though. It was so entertaining watching him try to sound intelligent but I know it wasn't all his fault. He was basically Howdy Doody and Dick Cheney was the one running the country from his private luxury bunker. lol

Gringa, though I respect your opinion on President Bush and VP Cheney, let's not turn this thread into a Bush bashing/Bush defending thread. We have more current issues to discuss.

Annie Oakley wrote:

Okay, Judge, I've got to ask you...no problem when President Bush spoke in 2001? The church is firmly against the death penalty, too, yet Bush was firmly pro-death penalty.

If you don't listen to Obama's speech, do yourself a favor and listen to Father Jenkins speech. It's one of the best I have heard in a long, long time. Judge, per our conversation on "dialogue," you would find common ground with it.

I don't have a problem with the death penalty, myself. Apples to oranges for me. A murderer loses their rights when they take the life of an innocent. One that goes through with abortion commits the same act as the murderer in my eyes, so Obama supporting that and speaking at Notre Dame tells me he's a hypocrite, and so are those at Notre Dame that allowed it. I lost a lot of respect for Notre Dame.

Judge Roy Bean wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

Okay, Judge, I've got to ask you...no problem when President Bush spoke in 2001? The church is firmly against the death penalty, too, yet Bush was firmly pro-death penalty.

If you don't listen to Obama's speech, do yourself a favor and listen to Father Jenkins speech. It's one of the best I have heard in a long, long time. Judge, per our conversation on "dialogue," you would find common ground with it.

I don't have a problem with the death penalty, myself. Apples to oranges for me. A murderer loses their rights when they take the life of an innocent. One that goes through with abortion commits the same act as the murderer in my eyes, so Obama supporting that and speaking at Notre Dame tells me he's a hypocrite, and so are those at Notre Dame that allowed it.

Okay. So you would have a problem with any college, not just a Catholic one, giving Obama an honorary degree and allowing him to give the commencement address?

I'm just trying to understand.

Annie Oakley wrote:

]

Okay. So you would have a problem with any college, not just a Catholic one, giving Obama an honorary degree and allowing him to give the commencement address?

I'm just trying to understand.

No, only those that defend the unborn, i.e. Notre Dame.

Judge Roy Bean wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

]

Okay. So you would have a problem with any college, not just a Catholic one, giving Obama an honorary degree and allowing him to give the commencement address?

I'm just trying to understand.

No, only those that defend the unborn, i.e. Notre Dame.

But catholicism is against the death penalty, yet no disdain for ND against allowing Bush to speak?

It's not like catholic teachings say, "well, we're kinda against the death penalty, but abortion - now we are firmly against that." Both are wrong, according to catholic teachings.

Annie Oakley wrote:

But catholicism is against the death penalty, yet no disdain for ND against allowing Bush to speak?

It's not like catholic teachings say, "well, we're kinda against the death penalty, but abortion - now we are firmly against that." Both are wrong, according to catholic teachings.

Catholicism is against several things I agree with, I suppose that makes me a hypocrite as well. It's just that when it comes to the most innocent, I draw the line.

Judge Roy Bean wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

But catholicism is against the death penalty, yet no disdain for ND against allowing Bush to speak?

It's not like catholic teachings say, "well, we're kinda against the death penalty, but abortion - now we are firmly against that." Both are wrong, according to catholic teachings.

Catholicism is against several things I agree with, I suppose that makes me a hypocrite as well. It's just that when it comes to the most innocent, I draw the line.

No, I just don't understand that outcry from so many on allowing President Obama to speak because he supports things that go against catholic teachings when there wasn't outcry for allowing President Bush to when he, too, supports policies that go against catholic teachings.

Annie Oakley wrote:

No, I just don't understand that outcry from so many on allowing President Obama to speak because he supports things that go against catholic teachings when there wasn't outcry for allowing President Bush to when he, too, supports policies that go against catholic teachings.

The way I look at it is not many people have any sympathy for coldblooded murderers, but the same people feel it their human responsibility to try to protect the innocent. That's how I feel about it anyways.

Judge Roy Bean wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

No, I just don't understand that outcry from so many on allowing President Obama to speak because he supports things that go against catholic teachings when there wasn't outcry for allowing President Bush to when he, too, supports policies that go against catholic teachings.

The way I look at it is not many people have any sympathy for coldblooded murderers, but the same people feel it their human responsibility to try to protect the innocent. That's how I feel about it anyways.

Oh, I understand your personal feelings about the issues. I just don't understand how ND being a catholic university fits in, allowing Bush but then the outcry against Obama.

The belief that the Catholic Church views abortion and the death penalty on the same level of evil is one of the most mistaken topics today. The Catholic Church GREATLY stresses the evil of abortion much more than the death penalty. That is not me speaking, that is the US Conference of Catholic of Bishops words which were blessed by both Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI. In the latest voter guide, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops mentioned five voting topics that are inherently evil and can never be justified: 1) abortion, 2) gay marriage, 3) embryonic stem cell research, 4) human cloning and 5) well.... my mind has gone blank on the fifth one.

Anyways, in the commentary the US Conf of Catholic Bishops specifically pointed out why they did not include the death penalty. The commented that the death penalty is not inherently evil because in some nations which do not have the resources for a sufficient prison system, they could be ethically and morally justified in using the death penalty for the protection of the public. They added that in the US, Canada, and Europe the ethical and moral use of the death penalty would be extremely rare if ever. However, they noted that a Catholic could be in favor of the death penalty and be in good communion in the church however they encouraged all US Catholics to be against the death penalty. A Catholic could not be for abortion, gay marriage, embryonic stem cell research or human cloning and be in good communion with the church. That would be like a mormon saying the Book of Mormon is a bunch of baloney.

So stating that, Notre Dame or any other Catholic University could invite GWB to their school and be in good favor with the church but could not invite Pres Obama with out cry.

So, you're saying that the Catholic church is "kind of" against the death penalty?

Annie Oakley wrote:

So, you're saying that the Catholic church is "kind of" against the death penalty?

No, the church is very much against the death penalty and feels it should be only used when no other choice is available which may be never except possibly in countries where the resources do not exist to build a safe prison system to protect the public.

However, to put the death penalty on the same level as abortion as topics the church sees as abhorrent would not be correct.

Wyatt Earp wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

So, you're saying that the Catholic church is "kind of" against the death penalty?

No, the church is very much against the death penalty and feels it should be only used when no other choice is available which may be never except possibly in countries where the resources do not exist to build a safe prison system to protect the public.

However, to put the death penalty on the same level as abortion as topics the church sees as abhorrent would not be correct.

My point is that if any uproar should exist (and I think Father Jenkins hit the mark with his speech on why no only there shouldn't be, but why it should be celebrated), then there should be for any person (Pres. Bush included) that fully supports what the church is against.