Look Out, It's On It's Way!

Mongo wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

What changes do you recommend?

For starters, I’d stop including everything to be insured. Think of the way auto insurance is, if our basic maintenance was part of insurance an oil change would cost hundreds of dollars. A simple tune up could cost upwards of a thousand. The same should go for the basic stuff in health care.

You nailed it Mongo! Health insurance should be for the "unexpected". What is being provided now is more like a bumper to bumper warranty. Insurance shouldn't be paying for every trip to the doctor or every "expected" illness. Medicare and health insurance are both grossly abused. Let the government in charge of it all and grossly abused won't begin to describe it.

Personal responsibility would solve many of our country's problems.

Too bad not everyone can afford to be "personally responsible". Health care shouldn't be a personal responsible, it should be a right as a citizen.

gringaloca wrote:

Too bad not everyone can afford to be "personally responsible". Health care shouldn't be a personal responsible, it should be a right as a citizen.

It's the least we can do for those in need!

People will probably get scared by all the insurance companies propaganda and it will fail. Oh well, who cares about the un-insured, right? As Scrooge said

Quote :

If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population.

gringaloca wrote:

People will probably get scared by all the insurance companies propaganda and it will fail. Oh well, who cares about the un-insured, right? As Scrooge said

Quote :

If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population.

I don't think anyone has a problem with fixing the health care system, but many of us just don't want something rushed through like the stimulus package. Many of us also disagree with the system that President Obama is proposing currently.
I know what we have needs an overhaul, but I'd rather see it done right than see it rushed and potentially be worse.

I just wish that if someone had an idea that was so much better than what Obama is proposing they would come forward. The republican side seems to be happy with the way things are. That just ain't going to work.

gringaloca wrote:

I just wish that if someone had an idea that was so much better than what Obama is proposing they would come forward. The republican side seems to be happy with the way things are. That just ain't going to work.

Actually, that isn't true.

Link

Judge Roy Bean wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

I just wish that if someone had an idea that was so much better than what Obama is proposing they would come forward. The republican side seems to be happy with the way things are. That just ain't going to work.

Actually, that isn't true.

Link

Well, I'm glad they are trying something. I guess when I hear leaders of the party saying that we have the best health care system in the world, etc. it makes me think that things aren't so bad. Health care is not only bankrupting our citizens, it's bankrupting companies who are trying to carry it. Health Insurance giants are generally evil and greedy. They need to be regulated. I don't believe the current system is working and that's why I think that it's time to start over from scratch. Putting a band-aid on the problem isn't going to fix it. And making a new plan that is "more accessible".. what does that even mean? It shouldn't be more accessible, it should be available to all who need it. Where is the plan they put forward and is it like their previous plan about our economy that included no numbers? I'm all for the other side coming up with some solutions and if they have a better plan, then I pray that it comes to light but so far I haven't heard about anything from the republicans that will give insurance to all Americans.

gringaloca wrote:

Judge Roy Bean wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

I just wish that if someone had an idea that was so much better than what Obama is proposing they would come forward. The republican side seems to be happy with the way things are. That just ain't going to work.

Actually, that isn't true.

Link

Well, I'm glad they are trying something. I guess when I hear leaders of the party saying that we have the best health care system in the world, etc. it makes me think that things aren't so bad. Health care is not only bankrupting our citizens, it's bankrupting companies who are trying to carry it. Health Insurance giants are generally evil and greedy. They need to be regulated. I don't believe the current system is working and that's why I think that it's time to start over from scratch. Putting a band-aid on the problem isn't going to fix it. And making a new plan that is "more accessible".. what does that even mean? It shouldn't be more accessible, it should be available to all who need it. Where is the plan they put forward and is it like their previous plan about our economy that included no numbers? I'm all for the other side coming up with some solutions and if they have a better plan, then I pray that it comes to light but so far I haven't heard about anything from the republicans that will give insurance to all Americans.

Call it evil...Call it greedy...Call it anything you wish. We simply can't afford to GIVE insurance to all Americans! Give me this, give me that, take, take, take, squeeze and milk for anything you can get out of Uncle Sam is the reason we're in the situation we're in. If this admin keeps printing money to support their irresponsible spending, insurance will be the least of our problems.

Nation health insurance repairs nothing. Billing fraud and fraudulent and frivolous malpractice suits, that's what's wrong with our heath care system. Strenuous prosecution of billing companies practicing fraud and tort reform will do more to repair our health care system, than taxing the living daylights out of all of us to maintain the current system.

Here's some interesting stats...

Support for public health insurance: 72% in favor, 20% opposed, 7% no opinion

Among Republicans: 50% favor, 39% oppose, 11% no opinion

Among Democrats: 87% in favor, 9% oppose, 4% no opinion

Willingness to pay higher taxes so all can have health care: 57% willing, 37% not willing, 6% no opinion

Among those making less than $50,000: 64% willing, 27% not willing, 8% no opinion

Among those making more than $50,000: 52% willing, 44% not willing, 4% no opinion


NY TIMES LINK

Of course those opposed who make over 50K a year already have insurance and simply don't want to pay more taxes. They can't relate to what it's like. So much of it is just plain and simple greed.

[quote="gringaloca"]Here's some interesting stats...

Support for public health insurance: 72% in favor, 20% opposed, 7% no opinion

Among Republicans: 50% favor, 39% oppose, 11% no opinion

Among Democrats: 87% in favor, 9% oppose, 4% no opinion

Willingness to pay higher taxes so all can have health care: 57% willing, 37% not willing, 6% no opinion

Among those making less than $50,000: 64% willing, 27% not willing, 8% no opinion

Among those making more than $50,000: 52% willing, 44% not willing, 4% no opinion


NY TIMES LINK

Of course those opposed who make over 50K a year already have insurance and simply don't want to pay more taxes. They can't relate to what it's like. So much of it is just plain and simple greed.[/quote]

Do you really believe that just because someone makes over 50k a year, has health insurance, don't want to pay more taxes and likes to hold on to what they've worked hard for is greedy?

gringaloca wrote:

Here's some interesting stats...

Support for public health insurance: 72% in favor, 20% opposed, 7% no opinion

Among Republicans: 50% favor, 39% oppose, 11% no opinion

Among Democrats: 87% in favor, 9% oppose, 4% no opinion

Willingness to pay higher taxes so all can have health care: 57% willing, 37% not willing, 6% no opinion

Among those making less than $50,000: 64% willing, 27% not willing, 8% no opinion

Among those making more than $50,000: 52% willing, 44% not willing, 4% no opinion


NY TIMES LINK

Of course those opposed who make over 50K a year already have insurance and simply don't want to pay more taxes. They can't relate to what it's like. So much of it is just plain and simple greed.

A poll. A NY Times poll, no less. Well that makes all the difference.

gringaloca wrote:

Of course those opposed who make over 50K a year already have insurance and simply don't want to pay more taxes. They can't relate to what it's like. So much of it is just plain and simple greed.

I work my rear off for what I make, because I want the best for my family. That's greed????

[quote="SKINNYPIG"]

gringaloca wrote:

Here's some interesting stats...

Support for public health insurance: 72% in favor, 20% opposed, 7% no opinion

Among Republicans: 50% favor, 39% oppose, 11% no opinion

Among Democrats: 87% in favor, 9% oppose, 4% no opinion

Willingness to pay higher taxes so all can have health care: 57% willing, 37% not willing, 6% no opinion

Among those making less than $50,000: 64% willing, 27% not willing, 8% no opinion

Among those making more than $50,000: 52% willing, 44% not willing, 4% no opinion


NY TIMES LINK

Of course those opposed who make over 50K a year already have insurance and simply don't want to pay more taxes. They can't relate to what it's like. So much of it is just plain and simple greed.[/quote]

Do you really believe that just because someone makes over 50k a year, has health insurance, don't want to pay more taxes and likes to hold on to what they've worked hard for is greedy?

Ummm yes, that's what I'm implying. If you already have insurance and are making over 50k a year and don't want to help your fellow man get health care, I would call that greed in the biblical sense.

Roy Rogers wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Of course those opposed who make over 50K a year already have insurance and simply don't want to pay more taxes. They can't relate to what it's like. So much of it is just plain and simple greed.

I work my rear off for what I make, because I want the best for my family. That's greed????

If you aren't willing to give a small percentage to help out your fellow Americans who aren't able to get health insurance, yes, I would say that is greedy. I'm sorry. We fall in this bracket and we've worked our butts off for our money as well and we still have a hard time getting by but I'm still willing to give a little if it helps my fellow man. It's what I was taught was right in church. Give to those in need. If people can't obtain health insurance and we can help them to get it, I'm willing to give it up. I'm willing to give up a couple tiny luxuries to help my fellow man. They aren't asking you to give up your house or your cars or your sat. tv or your first born here... It seems some believe that they aren't going to be able to feed their families if this passes. Truth is, we are paying for it anyway through all the bankruptcies, etc. You are going to lose your money one way or another. I certainly hope that if I was ever put in a situation that I couldn't afford health-care, someone would help me out a little. I thought Americans cared about each other more than they cared about fattening their wallet. Maybe I'm wrong.

gringaloca wrote:

If you aren't willing to give a small percentage to help out your fellow Americans who aren't able to get health insurance, yes, I would say that is greedy. I'm sorry. We fall in this bracket and we've worked our butts off for our money as well and we still have a hard time getting by but I'm still willing to give a little if it helps my fellow man. It's what I was taught was right in church. Give to those in need. If people can't obtain health insurance and we can help them to get it, I'm willing to give it up. I'm willing to give up a couple tiny luxuries to help my fellow man. They aren't asking you to give up your house or your cars or your sat. tv or your first born here... It seems some believe that they aren't going to be able to feed their families if this passes. Truth is, we are paying for it anyway through all the bankruptcies, etc. You are going to lose your money one way or another. I certainly hope that if I was ever put in a situation that I couldn't afford health-care, someone would help me out a little. I thought Americans cared about each other more than they cared about fattening their wallet. Maybe I'm wrong.

Nice way to attempt to pile on the guilt. That's better than most politicians I've heard recently. That includes several priests and our esteemed President, too.

However.

I have no problem helping my fellow man. I don’t need the government to tell me whom to help. I can see it all around me. Because I have worked my tail off, I'm able to do a lot of work for charities, veterans, and individuals in need as well as make sure my family is relatively well provided for. This year alone, I've ponied up quite a few dollars in time and money helping out my fellow man, most of it helping older veterans and struggling small businesses. I’ve been helping business for free, though, so I guess that is greedy, too. Of course the owners and their employees don’t think that, so I’m good.

I'm not against reforming health care, either, but I give enough money to the government for them to fund large inefficient bureaucracies, already. Show me a good plan and I'll be more than willing to help. The plans presented so far do little for those that have no health insurance, but heavily burden those that do. If you are going to help somebody, do it right. If this is done as proposed, thus far, not only will it not help those it’s intended to help, but also will collapse the economy so that nobody can help anybody. Just throwing money at a problem, doesn’t fix it. Throwing money away makes it worse.

Those that want to give up their hard earned money without control and accountability, just hand it over, can do so with my blessing, though. If that makes them feel that they’re doing their part, I say go for it. I, however, won't. If that’s greedy, then I’m greedy and proud of it.

Roy Rogers wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

If you aren't willing to give a small percentage to help out your fellow Americans who aren't able to get health insurance, yes, I would say that is greedy. I'm sorry. We fall in this bracket and we've worked our butts off for our money as well and we still have a hard time getting by but I'm still willing to give a little if it helps my fellow man. It's what I was taught was right in church. Give to those in need. If people can't obtain health insurance and we can help them to get it, I'm willing to give it up. I'm willing to give up a couple tiny luxuries to help my fellow man. They aren't asking you to give up your house or your cars or your sat. tv or your first born here... It seems some believe that they aren't going to be able to feed their families if this passes. Truth is, we are paying for it anyway through all the bankruptcies, etc. You are going to lose your money one way or another. I certainly hope that if I was ever put in a situation that I couldn't afford health-care, someone would help me out a little. I thought Americans cared about each other more than they cared about fattening their wallet. Maybe I'm wrong.

Nice way to attempt to pile on the guilt. That's better than most politicians I've heard recently. That includes several priests and our esteemed President, too.

However.

I have no problem helping my fellow man. I don’t need the government to tell me whom to help. I can see it all around me. Because I have worked my tail off, I'm able to do a lot of work for charities, veterans, and individuals in need as well as make sure my family is relatively well provided for. This year alone, I've ponied up quite a few dollars in time and money helping out my fellow man, most of it helping older veterans and struggling small businesses. I’ve been helping business for free, though, so I guess that is greedy, too. Of course the owners and their employees don’t think that, so I’m good.

I'm not against reforming health care, either, but I give enough money to the government for them to fund large inefficient bureaucracies, already. Show me a good plan and I'll be more than willing to help. The plans presented so far do little for those that have no health insurance, but heavily burden those that do. If you are going to help somebody, do it right. If this is done as proposed, thus far, not only will it not help those it’s intended to help, but also will collapse the economy so that nobody can help anybody. Just throwing money at a problem, doesn’t fix it. Throwing money away makes it worse.

Those that want to give up their hard earned money without control and accountability, just hand it over, can do so with my blessing, though. If that makes them feel that they’re doing their part, I say go for it. I, however, won't. If that’s greedy, then I’m greedy and proud of it.

I wasn't piling the guilt on anyone here. If you felt it, well, maybe that says something.

I do hope they find a way to help everyone get insurance without bankrupting our country but if things continue the way they are now, it's only going to go bankrupt anyway. At least we can say we tried to help people. I'm starting to wonder if we are going to go down the tubes no matter what is done. Bush dug a giant hole, then dumped money in the hole and then Obama dumps more money into the hole simply because nobody knows what else to do. Sitting around and doing nothing wasn't helping us any. He is trying to jump start the system. It does seem to be working because business is picking up and people aren't quite as strapped as they were before. I guess only time will tell. I just figure if we are going to be spending ungodly amounts of money, we might as well do something good. Everyone initially hated the idea of medicare as well. Now senior citizens depend on it and they deserve it. Change can be painful sometimes but fear of it isn't doing anything except wasting time.

gringaloca wrote:

Roy Rogers wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

If you aren't willing to give a small percentage to help out your fellow Americans who aren't able to get health insurance, yes, I would say that is greedy. I'm sorry. We fall in this bracket and we've worked our butts off for our money as well and we still have a hard time getting by but I'm still willing to give a little if it helps my fellow man. It's what I was taught was right in church. Give to those in need. If people can't obtain health insurance and we can help them to get it, I'm willing to give it up. I'm willing to give up a couple tiny luxuries to help my fellow man. They aren't asking you to give up your house or your cars or your sat. tv or your first born here... It seems some believe that they aren't going to be able to feed their families if this passes. Truth is, we are paying for it anyway through all the bankruptcies, etc. You are going to lose your money one way or another. I certainly hope that if I was ever put in a situation that I couldn't afford health-care, someone would help me out a little. I thought Americans cared about each other more than they cared about fattening their wallet. Maybe I'm wrong.

Nice way to attempt to pile on the guilt. That's better than most politicians I've heard recently. That includes several priests and our esteemed President, too.

However.

I have no problem helping my fellow man. I don’t need the government to tell me whom to help. I can see it all around me. Because I have worked my tail off, I'm able to do a lot of work for charities, veterans, and individuals in need as well as make sure my family is relatively well provided for. This year alone, I've ponied up quite a few dollars in time and money helping out my fellow man, most of it helping older veterans and struggling small businesses. I’ve been helping business for free, though, so I guess that is greedy, too. Of course the owners and their employees don’t think that, so I’m good.

I'm not against reforming health care, either, but I give enough money to the government for them to fund large inefficient bureaucracies, already. Show me a good plan and I'll be more than willing to help. The plans presented so far do little for those that have no health insurance, but heavily burden those that do. If you are going to help somebody, do it right. If this is done as proposed, thus far, not only will it not help those it’s intended to help, but also will collapse the economy so that nobody can help anybody. Just throwing money at a problem, doesn’t fix it. Throwing money away makes it worse.

Those that want to give up their hard earned money without control and accountability, just hand it over, can do so with my blessing, though. If that makes them feel that they’re doing their part, I say go for it. I, however, won't. If that’s greedy, then I’m greedy and proud of it.

I wasn't piling the guilt on anyone here. If you felt it, well, maybe that says something.

I do hope they find a way to help everyone get insurance without bankrupting our country but if things continue the way they are now, it's only going to go bankrupt anyway. At least we can say we tried to help people. I'm starting to wonder if we are going to go down the tubes no matter what is done. Bush dug a giant hole, then dumped money in the hole and then Obama dumps more money into the hole simply because nobody knows what else to do. Sitting around and doing nothing wasn't helping us any. He is trying to jump start the system. It does seem to be working because business is picking up and people aren't quite as strapped as they were before. I guess only time will tell. I just figure if we are going to be spending ungodly amounts of money, we might as well do something good. Everyone initially hated the idea of medicare as well. Now senior citizens depend on it and they deserve it. Change can be painful sometimes but fear of it isn't doing anything except wasting time.

I didn't feel guilty, but I understand your point.

Looking at what I highlighted, are you saying it's enough just to say we tried to help people, rather than actually helping them?

Roy Rogers wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Roy Rogers wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

If you aren't willing to give a small percentage to help out your fellow Americans who aren't able to get health insurance, yes, I would say that is greedy. I'm sorry. We fall in this bracket and we've worked our butts off for our money as well and we still have a hard time getting by but I'm still willing to give a little if it helps my fellow man. It's what I was taught was right in church. Give to those in need. If people can't obtain health insurance and we can help them to get it, I'm willing to give it up. I'm willing to give up a couple tiny luxuries to help my fellow man. They aren't asking you to give up your house or your cars or your sat. tv or your first born here... It seems some believe that they aren't going to be able to feed their families if this passes. Truth is, we are paying for it anyway through all the bankruptcies, etc. You are going to lose your money one way or another. I certainly hope that if I was ever put in a situation that I couldn't afford health-care, someone would help me out a little. I thought Americans cared about each other more than they cared about fattening their wallet. Maybe I'm wrong.

Nice way to attempt to pile on the guilt. That's better than most politicians I've heard recently. That includes several priests and our esteemed President, too.

However.

I have no problem helping my fellow man. I don’t need the government to tell me whom to help. I can see it all around me. Because I have worked my tail off, I'm able to do a lot of work for charities, veterans, and individuals in need as well as make sure my family is relatively well provided for. This year alone, I've ponied up quite a few dollars in time and money helping out my fellow man, most of it helping older veterans and struggling small businesses. I’ve been helping business for free, though, so I guess that is greedy, too. Of course the owners and their employees don’t think that, so I’m good.

I'm not against reforming health care, either, but I give enough money to the government for them to fund large inefficient bureaucracies, already. Show me a good plan and I'll be more than willing to help. The plans presented so far do little for those that have no health insurance, but heavily burden those that do. If you are going to help somebody, do it right. If this is done as proposed, thus far, not only will it not help those it’s intended to help, but also will collapse the economy so that nobody can help anybody. Just throwing money at a problem, doesn’t fix it. Throwing money away makes it worse.

Those that want to give up their hard earned money without control and accountability, just hand it over, can do so with my blessing, though. If that makes them feel that they’re doing their part, I say go for it. I, however, won't. If that’s greedy, then I’m greedy and proud of it.

I wasn't piling the guilt on anyone here. If you felt it, well, maybe that says something.

I do hope they find a way to help everyone get insurance without bankrupting our country but if things continue the way they are now, it's only going to go bankrupt anyway. At least we can say we tried to help people. I'm starting to wonder if we are going to go down the tubes no matter what is done. Bush dug a giant hole, then dumped money in the hole and then Obama dumps more money into the hole simply because nobody knows what else to do. Sitting around and doing nothing wasn't helping us any. He is trying to jump start the system. It does seem to be working because business is picking up and people aren't quite as strapped as they were before. I guess only time will tell. I just figure if we are going to be spending ungodly amounts of money, we might as well do something good. Everyone initially hated the idea of medicare as well. Now senior citizens depend on it and they deserve it. Change can be painful sometimes but fear of it isn't doing anything except wasting time.

I didn't feel guilty, but I understand your point.

Looking at what I highlighted, are you saying it's enough just to say we tried to help people, rather than actually helping them?

No, I want it to work. That's why I want them to try it. That's the whole point. And if this country goes down fighting for the common good, then at least it went down fighting for what was right. Personally, I don't think it's going to hurt anything. The cards have already been dealt. I do see light at the end of the tunnel though. There are times when I'm rather negative about our financial future but there is still hope for this country. It does seem we are turning the corner and slowly going to climb out of this mess. It's just going to be a slow process and democrats and republicans alike have to be patient with what the president is doing. We can't all be like Veruca Salt and stamp our feet...I want my goose and I want it NOOOOOOOOWWWW! I think that the health-care plan in the long run will save this country more than it costs us. We just have to be willing to sacrifice a little at the beginning. We all have loved ones who don't have insurance and we all want to see them covered. I just think the time for the health-care option is long overdue.

Roy Rogers wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Here's some interesting stats...

Support for public health insurance: 72% in favor, 20% opposed, 7% no opinion

Among Republicans: 50% favor, 39% oppose, 11% no opinion

Among Democrats: 87% in favor, 9% oppose, 4% no opinion

Willingness to pay higher taxes so all can have health care: 57% willing, 37% not willing, 6% no opinion

Among those making less than $50,000: 64% willing, 27% not willing, 8% no opinion

Among those making more than $50,000: 52% willing, 44% not willing, 4% no opinion


NY TIMES LINK

Of course those opposed who make over 50K a year already have insurance and simply don't want to pay more taxes. They can't relate to what it's like. So much of it is just plain and simple greed.

A poll. A NY Times poll, no less. Well that makes all the difference.

I think that if you take a stroll around the net you will find that nearly all polls show similar results except maybe on fox news or rush limbaugh's website.

And I also find it disturbing that when asked...the percentage of people who said yes was only 65% compared to democrats who said yes 90% of the time. It seems that the republican party has become the "it's all about me" party. Who cares if people have health insurance? Who cares if polar bears are dying? Who cares if I can't go outside for more than fifteen minutes without getting a sunburn? Who cares???? As long as I can get my money and pay less taxes. As long as I can shoot guns and keep gay people from marrying each other. Blah. I'm disgusted by it.

You will find that the things that republicans seem to be most worried about are things that would effect them directly. Why don't you guys care more about your fellow man? I just don't get it...



Article

Gringaloca wrote:And I also find it disturbing that when asked...the percentage of people who said yes was only 65% compared to democrats who said yes 90% of the time. It seems that the republican party has become the "it's all about me" party. Who cares if people have health insurance? Who cares if polar bears are dying? Who cares if I can't go outside for more than fifteen minutes without getting a sunburn? Who cares???? As long as I can get my money and pay less taxes. As long as I can shoot guns and keep gay people from marrying each other. Blah. I'm disgusted by it.

You will find that the things that republicans seem to be most worried about are things that would effect them directly. Why don't you guys care more about your fellow man? I just don't get it...

With all due respect, although I'm not a fan of the current republican party, I am more interested in a party that IS all about me/you ("We the People") than a party that is all about government.

I believe republicans care as much about their "fellow man" as democrats do. We just don't want a bigger, more intrusive, fiscally irresponsible government with tentacles reaching into every nook and cranny of our lives. I just don't get why you don't get it...

SKINNYPIG wrote:

Gringaloca wrote:And I also find it disturbing that when asked...the percentage of people who said yes was only 65% compared to democrats who said yes 90% of the time. It seems that the republican party has become the "it's all about me" party. Who cares if people have health insurance? Who cares if polar bears are dying? Who cares if I can't go outside for more than fifteen minutes without getting a sunburn? Who cares???? As long as I can get my money and pay less taxes. As long as I can shoot guns and keep gay people from marrying each other. Blah. I'm disgusted by it.

You will find that the things that republicans seem to be most worried about are things that would effect them directly. Why don't you guys care more about your fellow man? I just don't get it...

With all due respect, although I'm not a fan of the current republican party, I am more interested in a party that IS all about me/you ("We the People") than a party that is all about government.

I believe republicans care as much about their "fellow man" as democrats do. We just don't want a bigger, more intrusive, fiscally irresponsible government with tentacles reaching into every nook and cranny of our lives. I just don't get why you don't get it...

Well, Apparently they only randomly pick crazy, self-absorbed republicans in these polls. Too bad they don't ever call you, huh?