The Outpost Saloon
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

The Outpost Saloon

A forum for sports, politics, general discussion and a variety of topics.
 
HomeHome  Latest imagesLatest images  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

 

 Government Run Health Care

Go down 
4 posters
AuthorMessage
Judge Roy Bean
Founder
Judge Roy Bean


Location : I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle!
Posts : 572
Age : 62
Join date : 2009-04-12

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 10:42 am

This is why I'm dead set against it! Be careful what you wish for!





Patients United Now's Website
Back to top Go down
https://outpostsaloon.forumotion.com
gringaloca
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
gringaloca


Location : Firmly planted in reality
Posts : 1139
Age : 50
Join date : 2009-04-18

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 1:35 pm

Brought to you by The Americans for Prosperity Foundation......

Coffee

I've been a patient my entire life basically. I've been having major surgeries and being chopped on and experimented on since I was nine. I know the state of our healthcare system and it is not "world-class" by any stretch of the imagination. I watched my stepmother die while her insurance company fought over whether or not she was sick enough to receive chemotherapy and radiation treatments. She died a miserable death over six months. I watch one my my dearest friends who has chronic kidney stones and kidney problems suffer in great pain every day because she has no insurance and can't afford the bill to receive help. She and her husband both work and he is disabled and in kidney failure himself. Where's that world-class medical care? I've sat in waiting rooms for hours upon hours with sick children and in one case, while I was bleeding profusely. I later had to have a blood transfusion because they waited so long to see me. If I put together all the days of my life I spent waiting for health-care it would probably add up to about about 10% of my life or more. Sooooo, I find that ad nothing but a bunch of bull pucky paid for by insurance companies who have to be in some way connected to Satan himself. I have two friends that live in Canada who have begged me to move there because of their "outstanding" FREE healthcare. They love it and have never told me that had to wait months for treatment (one of them had breast cancer and is still alive and cancer free with the help of Canadian healthcare). Of course it would be crazy to think that any country is going to have perfect healthcare but if you look at the stats, we are WAY down the list when it comes to good healthcare. Our infant mortality rate is unreal. I'll find all that stats and post them if you don't believe me. When you see ads like this, make sure you do some digging and find out who is really behind them. They want to scare you all to death and it looks like it's working on some. Well, it ain't working on me.
PS I had to go all the way to Mayo Clinic...pay for my airfare and hotel for 10 days to get worldclass treatment. Not everyone has that luxury. If I hadn't of tripped upon a miracle doctor when I was 10 years old, I would have died by 12. I had seen 28 doctors by that time who couldn't help me while I bled out my insides. One of them even told me to go home and play like a normal child and quit worrying about it. If I had of took that guys advice I'd been dead in a year. I ended up with toxic mega-colon and the rest is history. I won't even go into what my OB/GYN did to me and my daughter when I was giving birth to her. My daughter was dead at birth and I'm disabled for the rest of my life because of it. So, as you can see, I'm not so impressed with our "wonderful" healthcare here in the US. Evil or Very Mad
Back to top Go down
Lucas McCain
Rancher
Rancher
Lucas McCain


Posts : 873
Age : 65
Join date : 2009-04-23

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 2:52 pm

It's easy to get health care in Canada.
Back to top Go down
gringaloca
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
gringaloca


Location : Firmly planted in reality
Posts : 1139
Age : 50
Join date : 2009-04-18

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 3:06 pm

Thank you for your gracious response Mr. McCain.


Last edited by Doc Holiday on Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Personal Attack.)
Back to top Go down
Judge Roy Bean
Founder
Judge Roy Bean


Location : I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle!
Posts : 572
Age : 62
Join date : 2009-04-12

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 4:26 pm

gringaloca wrote:
Brought to you by The Americans for Prosperity Foundation......

Coffee

I've been a patient my entire life basically. I've been having major surgeries and being chopped on and experimented on since I was nine. I know the state of our healthcare system and it is not "world-class" by any stretch of the imagination. I watched my stepmother die while her insurance company fought over whether or not she was sick enough to receive chemotherapy and radiation treatments. She died a miserable death over six months. I watch one my my dearest friends who has chronic kidney stones and kidney problems suffer in great pain every day because she has no insurance and can't afford the bill to receive help. She and her husband both work and he is disabled and in kidney failure himself. Where's that world-class medical care? I've sat in waiting rooms for hours upon hours with sick children and in one case, while I was bleeding profusely. I later had to have a blood transfusion because they waited so long to see me. If I put together all the days of my life I spent waiting for health-care it would probably add up to about about 10% of my life or more. Sooooo, I find that ad nothing but a bunch of bull pucky paid for by insurance companies who have to be in some way connected to Satan himself. I have two friends that live in Canada who have begged me to move there because of their "outstanding" FREE healthcare. They love it and have never told me that had to wait months for treatment (one of them had breast cancer and is still alive and cancer free with the help of Canadian healthcare). Of course it would be crazy to think that any country is going to have perfect healthcare but if you look at the stats, we are WAY down the list when it comes to good healthcare. Our infant mortality rate is unreal. I'll find all that stats and post them if you don't believe me. When you see ads like this, make sure you do some digging and find out who is really behind them. They want to scare you all to death and it looks like it's working on some. Well, it ain't working on me.
PS I had to go all the way to Mayo Clinic...pay for my airfare and hotel for 10 days to get worldclass treatment. Not everyone has that luxury. If I hadn't of tripped upon a miracle doctor when I was 10 years old, I would have died by 12. I had seen 28 doctors by that time who couldn't help me while I bled out my insides. One of them even told me to go home and play like a normal child and quit worrying about it. If I had of took that guys advice I'd been dead in a year. I ended up with toxic mega-colon and the rest is history. I won't even go into what my OB/GYN did to me and my daughter when I was giving birth to her. My daughter was dead at birth and I'm disabled for the rest of my life because of it. So, as you can see, I'm not so impressed with our "wonderful" healthcare here in the US. Evil or Very Mad
If you think it's bad now, wait until the government runs it. Funny thing is, I've talked to people who have friends and family in Canada, they think the health care there is terrible, pretty much as described in the ad.
Back to top Go down
https://outpostsaloon.forumotion.com
Lucas McCain
Rancher
Rancher
Lucas McCain


Posts : 873
Age : 65
Join date : 2009-04-23

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 5:41 pm

gringaloca wrote:
Thank you for your gracious response Mr. McCain.
I am sorry.. It was rude of me to assume you had the option.. But if you did, would you choose Canadian or U.S. health care... And I do realize there are some terrible doctors here..
Back to top Go down
gringaloca
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
gringaloca


Location : Firmly planted in reality
Posts : 1139
Age : 50
Join date : 2009-04-18

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 6:23 pm

Lucas McCain wrote:
gringaloca wrote:
Thank you for your gracious response Mr. McCain.
I am sorry.. It was rude of me to assume you had the option.. But if you did, would you choose Canadian or U.S. health care... And I do realize there are some terrible doctors here..

Lucas, I'm not going to correspond with you further. Editing your post and toning it down to make me look like the bad guy is not cool at all. You've been downright rude to me all day long and you know it. Please just leave me alone. Thanks.
Back to top Go down
gringaloca
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
gringaloca


Location : Firmly planted in reality
Posts : 1139
Age : 50
Join date : 2009-04-18

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 6:25 pm

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
gringaloca wrote:
Brought to you by The Americans for Prosperity Foundation......

Coffee

I've been a patient my entire life basically. I've been having major surgeries and being chopped on and experimented on since I was nine. I know the state of our healthcare system and it is not "world-class" by any stretch of the imagination. I watched my stepmother die while her insurance company fought over whether or not she was sick enough to receive chemotherapy and radiation treatments. She died a miserable death over six months. I watch one my my dearest friends who has chronic kidney stones and kidney problems suffer in great pain every day because she has no insurance and can't afford the bill to receive help. She and her husband both work and he is disabled and in kidney failure himself. Where's that world-class medical care? I've sat in waiting rooms for hours upon hours with sick children and in one case, while I was bleeding profusely. I later had to have a blood transfusion because they waited so long to see me. If I put together all the days of my life I spent waiting for health-care it would probably add up to about about 10% of my life or more. Sooooo, I find that ad nothing but a bunch of bull pucky paid for by insurance companies who have to be in some way connected to Satan himself. I have two friends that live in Canada who have begged me to move there because of their "outstanding" FREE healthcare. They love it and have never told me that had to wait months for treatment (one of them had breast cancer and is still alive and cancer free with the help of Canadian healthcare). Of course it would be crazy to think that any country is going to have perfect healthcare but if you look at the stats, we are WAY down the list when it comes to good healthcare. Our infant mortality rate is unreal. I'll find all that stats and post them if you don't believe me. When you see ads like this, make sure you do some digging and find out who is really behind them. They want to scare you all to death and it looks like it's working on some. Well, it ain't working on me.
PS I had to go all the way to Mayo Clinic...pay for my airfare and hotel for 10 days to get worldclass treatment. Not everyone has that luxury. If I hadn't of tripped upon a miracle doctor when I was 10 years old, I would have died by 12. I had seen 28 doctors by that time who couldn't help me while I bled out my insides. One of them even told me to go home and play like a normal child and quit worrying about it. If I had of took that guys advice I'd been dead in a year. I ended up with toxic mega-colon and the rest is history. I won't even go into what my OB/GYN did to me and my daughter when I was giving birth to her. My daughter was dead at birth and I'm disabled for the rest of my life because of it. So, as you can see, I'm not so impressed with our "wonderful" healthcare here in the US. Evil or Very Mad
If you think it's bad now, wait until the government runs it. Funny thing is, I've talked to people who have friends and family in Canada, they think the health care there is terrible, pretty much as described in the ad.

Weird. I wonder if it matters which part of Canada you are residing. My friends live in British Columbia. Oh well, to each his own but I'm praying for universal healthcare for my dear friends who have none. I bet they are willing to take whatever they can get.
Back to top Go down
Lucas McCain
Rancher
Rancher
Lucas McCain


Posts : 873
Age : 65
Join date : 2009-04-23

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 6:44 pm

gringaloca wrote:
Lucas McCain wrote:
gringaloca wrote:
Thank you for your gracious response Mr. McCain.
I am sorry.. It was rude of me to assume you had the option.. But if you did, would you choose Canadian or U.S. health care... And I do realize there are some terrible doctors here..

Lucas, I'm not going to correspond with you further. Editing your post and toning it down to make me look like the bad guy is not cool at all. You've been downright rude to me all day long and you know it. Please just leave me alone. Thanks.
It was a reasonable question and I am NOT the person who edited my post...
Back to top Go down
The Drifter
Wrangler
Wrangler



Posts : 226
Join date : 2009-04-21

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2009 9:54 pm

Should anyone think that health care is expensive now, wait untill it is free! affraid
Back to top Go down
gringaloca
Trail Boss
Trail Boss
gringaloca


Location : Firmly planted in reality
Posts : 1139
Age : 50
Join date : 2009-04-18

Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 02, 2009 1:32 am

I know I said I was taking a break and I am (you know us liberal flip floppers Razz ) but I just had to post this article for those of you who are afraid of the US having "social security" for all.

Mythbusting Canadian Healthcare Part 1 By Sara Robinson (who is a Canadian resident and a US citizen living in British Columbia)

Before you dismiss everything she says, actually think about it and don't count her account out simply because you've been told the opposite. Her story is a common one. And I'd like to add that two years ago I was suffering from pancreatitis and my liver was malfunctioning. I was very, very ill. I spent the majority of my life on a couch throwing up about once every half an hour. I contacted the "best" gastroenterologist in our area and told them I was afraid I was going to die if I wasn't seen soon. I had to wait three and a half months to see this man because the other docs didn't know what to do with me. Long waiting times aren't caused by universal health-care. It's caused by over-worked doctors who spend half their time arguing on the phone with insurance companies over care for their patients. Anyway, here's the article. Please take the time to go to the link and read the rest. Thanks

Link to the article....

2008 is shaping up to be the election year that we finally get to have the Great American Healthcare Debate again. Harry and Louise are back with a vengeance. Conservatives are rumbling around the talk show circuit bellowing about the socialist threat to the (literal) American body politic. And, as usual, Canada is once again getting dragged into the fracas, shoved around by both sides as either an exemplar or a warning -- and, along the way, getting coated with the obfuscating dust of so many willful misconceptions that the actual facts about How Canada Does It are completely lost in the melee.

I'm both a health-care-card-carrying Canadian resident and an uninsured American citizen who regularly sees doctors on both sides of the border. As such, I'm in a unique position to address the pros and cons of both systems first-hand. If we're going to have this conversation, it would be great if we could start out (for once) with actual facts, instead of ideological posturing, wishful thinking, hearsay, and random guessing about how things get done up here.

To that end, here's the first of a two-part series aimed at busting the common myths Americans routinely tell each other about Canadian health care. When the right-wing hysterics drag out these hoary old bogeymen, this time, we need to be armed and ready to blast them into straw. Because, mostly, straw is all they're made of.

1. Canada's health care system is "socialized medicine."
False. In socialized medical systems, the doctors work directly for the state. In Canada (and many other countries with universal care), doctors run their own private practices, just like they do in the US. The only difference is that every doctor deals with one insurer, instead of 150. And that insurer is the provincial government, which is accountable to the legislature and the voters if the quality of coverage is allowed to slide.

The proper term for this is "single-payer insurance." In talking to Americans about it, the better phrase is "Medicare for all."

2. Doctors are hurt financially by single-payer health care.
True and False. Doctors in Canada do make less than their US counterparts. But they also have lower overhead, and usually much better working conditions. A few reasons for this:

First, as noted, they don't have to charge higher fees to cover the salary of a full-time staffer to deal with over a hundred different insurers, all of whom are bent on denying care whenever possible. In fact, most Canadian doctors get by quite nicely with just one assistant, who cheerfully handles the phones, mail, scheduling, patient reception, stocking, filing, and billing all by herself in the course of a standard workday.

Second, they don't have to spend several hours every day on the phone cajoling insurance company bean counters into doing the right thing by their patients. My doctor in California worked a 70-hour week: 35 hours seeing patients, and another 35 hours on the phone arguing with insurance companies. My Canadian doctor, on the other hand, works a 35-hour week, period. She files her invoices online, and the vast majority are simply paid -- quietly, quickly, and without hassle. There is no runaround. There are no fights. Appointments aren't interrupted by vexing phone calls. Care is seldom denied (because everybody knows the rules). She gets her checks on time, sees her patients on schedule, takes Thursdays off, and gets home in time for dinner.

One unsurprising side effect of all this is that the doctors I see here are, to a person, more focused, more relaxed, more generous with their time, more up-to-date in their specialties, and overall much less distracted from the real work of doctoring. You don't realize how much stress the American doctor-insurer fights put on the day-to-day quality of care until you see doctors who don't operate under that stress, because they never have to fight those battles at all. Amazingly: they seem to enjoy their jobs.

Third: The average American medical student graduates $140,000 in hock. The average Canadian doctor's debt is roughly half that.

Finally, Canadian doctors pay lower malpractice insurance fees. When paying for health care constitutes a one of a family's major expenses, expectations tend to run very high. A doctor's mistake not only damages the body; it may very well throw a middle-class family permanently into the ranks of the working poor, and render the victim uninsurable for life. With so much at stake, it's no wonder people are quick to rush to court for redress.

Canadians are far less likely to sue in the first place, since they're not having to absorb devastating financial losses in addition to any physical losses when something goes awry. The cost of the damaging treatment will be covered. So will the cost of fixing it. And, no matter what happens, the victim will remain insured for life. When lawsuits do occur, the awards don't have to include coverage for future medical costs, which reduces the insurance company's liability.

3. Wait times in Canada are horrendous.
True and False again -- it depends on which province you live in, and what's wrong with you. Canada's health care system runs on federal guidelines that ensure uniform standards of care, but each territory and province administers its own program. Some provinces don't plan their facilities well enough; in those, you can have waits. Some do better. As a general rule, the farther north you live, the harder it is to get to care, simply because the doctors and hospitals are concentrated in the south. But that's just as true in any rural county in the U.S.

You can hear the bitching about it no matter where you live, though. The percentage of Canadians who'd consider giving up their beloved system consistently languishes in the single digits. A few years ago, a TV show asked Canadians to name the Greatest Canadian in history; and in a broad national consensus, they gave the honor to Tommy Douglas, the Saskatchewan premier who is considered the father of the country's health care system. (And no, it had nothing to do with the fact that he was also Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather.). In spite of that, though, grousing about health care is still unofficially Canada's third national sport after curling and hockey.

And for the country's newspapers, it's a prime watchdogging opportunity. Any little thing goes sideways at the local hospital, and it's on the front pages the next day. Those kinds of stories sell papers, because everyone is invested in that system and has a personal stake in how well it functions. The American system might benefit from this kind of constant scrutiny, because it's certainly one of the things that keeps the quality high. But it also makes people think it's far worse than it is.

Critics should be reminded that the American system is not exactly instant-on, either. When I lived in California, I had excellent insurance, and got my care through one of the best university-based systems in the nation. Yet I routinely had to wait anywhere from six to twelve weeks to get in to see a specialist. Non-emergency surgical waits could be anywhere from four weeks to four months. After two years in the BC system, I'm finding the experience to be pretty much comparable, and often better. The notable exception is MRIs, which were easy in California, but can take many months to get here. (It's the number one thing people go over the border for.) Other than that, urban Canadians get care about as fast as urban Americans do.

4. You have to wait forever to get a family doctor.
False for the vast majority of Canadians, but True for a few. Again, it all depends on where you live. I live in suburban Vancouver, and there are any number of first-rate GPs in my neighborhood who are taking new patients. If you don't have a working relationship with one, but need to see a doctor now, there are 24-hour urgent care clinics in most neighborhoods that will usually get you in and out on the minor stuff in under an hour.

It is, absolutely, harder to get to a doctor if you live out in a small town, or up in the territories. But that's just as true in the U.S. -- and in America, the government won't cover the airfare for rural folk to come down to the city for needed treatment, which all the provincial plans do.

5. You don't get to choose your own doctor.
Scurrilously False. Somebody, somewhere, is getting paid a lot of money to make this kind of stuff up. The cons love to scare the kids with stories about the government picking your doctor for you, and you don't get a choice. Be afraid! Be very afraid!

For the record: Canadians pick their own doctors, just like Americans do. And not only that: since it all pays the same, poor Canadians have exactly the same access to the country's top specialists that rich ones do.

6. Canada's care plan only covers the basics. You're still on your own for any extras, including prescription drugs. And you still have to pay for it.
True -- but not as big an issue as you might think. The province does charge a small monthly premium (ours is $108/month for a family of four) for the basic coverage. However, most people never even have to write that check: almost all employers pick up the tab for their employees' premiums as part of the standard benefits package; and the province covers it for people on public assistance or disability.

"The basics" covered by this plan include 100% of all doctor's fees, ambulance fares, tests, and everything that happens in a hospital -- in other words, the really big-ticket items that routinely drive American families into bankruptcy. In BC, it doesn't include "extras" like medical equipment, prescriptions, physical therapy or chiropractic care, dental, vision, and so on; and if you want a private or semi-private room with TV and phone, that costs extra (about what you'd pay for a room in a middling hotel). That other stuff does add up; but it's far easier to afford if you're not having to cover the big expenses, too. Furthermore: you can deduct any out-of-pocket health expenses you do have to pay off your income taxes. And, as every American knows by now, drugs aren't nearly as expensive here, either.

Filling the gap between the basics and the extras is the job of the country's remaining private health insurers. Since they're off the hook for the ruinously expensive big-ticket items that can put their own profits at risk, the insurance companies make a tidy business out of offering inexpensive policies that cover all those smaller, more predictable expenses. Top-quality add-on policies typically run in the ballpark of $75 per person in a family per month -- about $300 for a family of four -- if you're stuck buying an individual plan. Group plans are cheap enough that even small employers can afford to offer them as a routine benefit. An average working Canadian with employer-paid basic care and supplemental insurance gets free coverage equal to the best policies now only offered at a few of America's largest corporations. And that employer is probably only paying a couple hundred dollars a month to provide that benefit.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





Government Run Health Care Empty
PostSubject: Re: Government Run Health Care   Government Run Health Care I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Government Run Health Care
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» The faces of health care reform...
» What Canadians are saying about their health-care system bei
» The Truths and Myths of Canadian Health-Care
» Abortion and the Health Care Reform Bill
» The Secret Effort to Kill Health Care Reform....

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Outpost Saloon :: The Outhouse :: Politics-
Jump to: