American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009

The House is set to vote this Friday, pray it fails!

According to the Environmental Protection Agency, it is projected to impose annual costs of about $1,100 per household (a little less than 1% of total consumption) by 2050. If the law works precisely as intended, in about one hundred years we should expect surface temperatures to be a about one-tenth of one degree Celsius lower than they otherwise would be. The expected costs are at least ten times the expected benefits, even using the EPA’s cost estimates and assuming achievement of the primary goal of the legislation.

Using taxpayer dollars to invest in inefficient energy sources while artificially driving up the costs of reliable energy with a cap-and-trade program will only cause more economic pain for the consumer—with no environmental benefit to show for it.

Contact your elected officials and tell them to vote this down!

All of this for what? Because the sun is hot...

News flash! The earth goes through cycles, sometimes it's hot, sometimes it cold. Duh....

Mongo wrote:

All of this for what? Because the sun is hot...

News flash! The earth goes through cycles, sometimes it's hot, sometimes it cold. Duh....

You might want to explain that to all the polar bears that are drowning...

gringaloca wrote:

Mongo wrote:

All of this for what? Because the sun is hot...

News flash! The earth goes through cycles, sometimes it's hot, sometimes it cold. Duh....

You might want to explain that to all the polar bears that are drowning...

Don't believe everything Gore tells you. In the 1950s the polar bear population up north was estimated at 5,000. Today it’s 20 to 25,000, a number that has either held steady over the last 20 years or has risen slightly. In Canada, the manager of wildlife resources for the Nunavut territory of Canada has found that the population there has increased by 25 percent. The polar bear "threat" is nothing but Green propaganda.

Polar Bear Politics

Mongo wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Mongo wrote:

All of this for what? Because the sun is hot...

News flash! The earth goes through cycles, sometimes it's hot, sometimes it cold. Duh....

You might want to explain that to all the polar bears that are drowning...

Don't believe everything Gore tells you. In the 1950s the polar bear population up north was estimated at 5,000. Today it’s 20 to 25,000, a number that has either held steady over the last 20 years or has risen slightly. In Canada, the manager of wildlife resources for the Nunavut territory of Canada has found that the population there has increased by 25 percent. The polar bear "threat" is nothing but Green propaganda.

Polar Bear Politics

Mongo, FACTS do not matter to the Obama faithful....

Big Jake wrote:

Mongo wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Mongo wrote:

All of this for what? Because the sun is hot...

News flash! The earth goes through cycles, sometimes it's hot, sometimes it cold. Duh....

You might want to explain that to all the polar bears that are drowning...

Don't believe everything Gore tells you. In the 1950s the polar bear population up north was estimated at 5,000. Today it’s 20 to 25,000, a number that has either held steady over the last 20 years or has risen slightly. In Canada, the manager of wildlife resources for the Nunavut territory of Canada has found that the population there has increased by 25 percent. The polar bear "threat" is nothing but Green propaganda.

Polar Bear Politics

Mongo, FACTS do not matter to the Obama faithful....

Wow, remove that chip there Big Jake. Anyway, one of the main reasons that polar bear numbers have gone up is because people who give a crap about them have seen to it that they have been protected from hunters. What is green propaganda anyway? Why is it so wrong to want to protect the planet? Why do so many republicans seem to think it's stupid to care about the environment? I thought that good Christians are supposed to protect Gods creation not kill it off or laugh or ridicule those who want to protect it.

Quote :

Threats

Climate change, which is causing the loss of older stable sea ice and the thinning, disappearance and moving offshore of older sea ice, is reducing essential polar bear habitats and is the great threat to their survival. Loss of sea ice leads to higher energy requirements to locate prey and a shortage of food. This causes higher mortality among cubs and reduction in size among first year cubs and adult males. For example, in Alaska 42% of cubs now reach 12 months of age, down from 65% 15 years ago. Another threat is human-caused mortality. Some bears are attracted by unsecured garbage and animal carcasses. This can eventually lead to conflicts between people and bears and lethal removal of the bear. Illegal killing (poaching) of bears also remains another factor causing their decline.
Legal Status/Protection

The polar bear was listed as threatened under the federal Endangered Species Act* on May 14, 2008. This move officially recognizes that polar bears are threatened with extinction from global warming, which is melting the Arctic sea ice where polar bears hunt for ringed and bearded seals, their primary food source.

In May 2006, the International Union for the Conservation of Nature added the polar bear to its "Red List" of the world’s most imperiled animals, predicting a 30% reduction in the polar bear population in the next 45 years.

*The Endangered Species Act requires the US federal government to identify species threatened with extinction, identify habitat they need to survive, and help protect both. In doing so, the Act works to ensure the basic health of our natural ecosystems and protect the legacy of conservation we leave to our children and grandchildren.

The only way polar bears will survive is if they stay away from man in remote locations that men can't stand to hunt in. The problem with that is, if the ice keeps melting, they have to keep moving south into areas that are inhabited by humans, looking for food and looking for solid ground. You can either turn up your nose at endangered species or you can do something to save them. I think you can tell a lot about a person by whether or not they care about animals (and I'm not talking about pets). I'm sick of the "right" demonizing people who actually give a damn. It makes me

link

gringaloca wrote:

Wow, remove that chip there Big Jake. Anyway, one of the main reasons that polar bear numbers have gone up is because people who give a crap about them have seen to it that they have been protected from hunters. What is green propaganda anyway? Why is it so wrong to want to protect the planet? Why do so many republicans seem to think it's stupid to care about the environment? I thought that good Christians are supposed to protect Gods creation not kill it off or laugh or ridicule those who want to protect it.

Quote :

Threats

Climate change, which is causing the loss of older stable sea ice and the thinning, disappearance and moving offshore of older sea ice, is reducing essential polar bear habitats and is the great threat to their survival. Loss of sea ice leads to higher energy requirements to locate prey and a shortage of food. This causes higher mortality among cubs and reduction in size among first year cubs and adult males. For example, in Alaska 42% of cubs now reach 12 months of age, down from 65% 15 years ago. Another threat is human-caused mortality. Some bears are attracted by unsecured garbage and animal carcasses. This can eventually lead to conflicts between people and bears and lethal removal of the bear. Illegal killing (poaching) of bears also remains another factor causing their decline.
Legal Status/Protection

The polar bear was listed as threatened under the federal Endangered Species Act* on May 14, 2008. This move officially recognizes that polar bears are threatened with extinction from global warming, which is melting the Arctic sea ice where polar bears hunt for ringed and bearded seals, their primary food source.

In May 2006, the International Union for the Conservation of Nature added the polar bear to its "Red List" of the world’s most imperiled animals, predicting a 30% reduction in the polar bear population in the next 45 years.

*The Endangered Species Act requires the US federal government to identify species threatened with extinction, identify habitat they need to survive, and help protect both. In doing so, the Act works to ensure the basic health of our natural ecosystems and protect the legacy of conservation we leave to our children and grandchildren.

The only way polar bears will survive is if they stay away from man in remote locations that men can't stand to hunt in. The problem with that is, if the ice keeps melting, they have to keep moving south into areas that are inhabited by humans, looking for food and looking for solid ground. You can either turn up your nose at endangered species or you can do something to save them. I think you can tell a lot about a person by whether or not they care about animals (and I'm not talking about pets). I'm sick of the "right" demonizing people who actually give a damn. It makes me

link

Your view of hunters is incorrect, gringa. Hunters are actually the best conservationists. Hunting actually helps animal welfare because it keeps populations in check and balances the habitat. Wildlife is benefited by reduced disease outbreaks, less starvation, more food, larger territory, and less environmental stresses.
If man does not manage the annual excesses of wildlife, natural controls will. The quality of available habitat controls the number of survivors during stressful conditions and rapid reproductive rates produce an annual surplus that can either be harvested and enjoyed or totally wasted.
Natural controls of disease, starvation, predation, exposure and hypothermia are not kind, certainly not as kind and swift as hunting. Dense populations cause stress, malnutrition and weakened animals. Increased interaction also multiplies opportunities for disease transmission.

Quote :

Hunters were the first conservationists in America
Teddy Roosevelt established the first national parks, developed conservation programs and started the wildlife preserve program.
Other early conservationists joined Roosevelt to start the Boone and Crockett Club, one of the first conservation groups in the world.
Key Conservationists, such as Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold, were hunters.
Conservation groups flourished on the national and local level during the 1920's-30's and 40's. They were primarily composed of hunters.
Hunters led the way in the restoration of America's wildlife.
Hunters still lead the way in conservation
Millions of people hunt and also contribute to the welfare of wildlife in America.
Responsible hunters belong to wildlife groups and actively contribute time, money and effort.
You should seek out and join a wildlife organization where you feel you can contribute the most to wildlife.

Hunters as Conservationists

Mongo wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Wow, remove that chip there Big Jake. Anyway, one of the main reasons that polar bear numbers have gone up is because people who give a crap about them have seen to it that they have been protected from hunters. What is green propaganda anyway? Why is it so wrong to want to protect the planet? Why do so many republicans seem to think it's stupid to care about the environment? I thought that good Christians are supposed to protect Gods creation not kill it off or laugh or ridicule those who want to protect it.

Quote :

Threats

Climate change, which is causing the loss of older stable sea ice and the thinning, disappearance and moving offshore of older sea ice, is reducing essential polar bear habitats and is the great threat to their survival. Loss of sea ice leads to higher energy requirements to locate prey and a shortage of food. This causes higher mortality among cubs and reduction in size among first year cubs and adult males. For example, in Alaska 42% of cubs now reach 12 months of age, down from 65% 15 years ago. Another threat is human-caused mortality. Some bears are attracted by unsecured garbage and animal carcasses. This can eventually lead to conflicts between people and bears and lethal removal of the bear. Illegal killing (poaching) of bears also remains another factor causing their decline.
Legal Status/Protection

The polar bear was listed as threatened under the federal Endangered Species Act* on May 14, 2008. This move officially recognizes that polar bears are threatened with extinction from global warming, which is melting the Arctic sea ice where polar bears hunt for ringed and bearded seals, their primary food source.

In May 2006, the International Union for the Conservation of Nature added the polar bear to its "Red List" of the world’s most imperiled animals, predicting a 30% reduction in the polar bear population in the next 45 years.

*The Endangered Species Act requires the US federal government to identify species threatened with extinction, identify habitat they need to survive, and help protect both. In doing so, the Act works to ensure the basic health of our natural ecosystems and protect the legacy of conservation we leave to our children and grandchildren.

The only way polar bears will survive is if they stay away from man in remote locations that men can't stand to hunt in. The problem with that is, if the ice keeps melting, they have to keep moving south into areas that are inhabited by humans, looking for food and looking for solid ground. You can either turn up your nose at endangered species or you can do something to save them. I think you can tell a lot about a person by whether or not they care about animals (and I'm not talking about pets). I'm sick of the "right" demonizing people who actually give a damn. It makes me

link

Your view of hunters is incorrect, gringa. Hunters are actually the best conservationists. Hunting actually helps animal welfare because it keeps populations in check and balances the habitat. Wildlife is benefited by reduced disease outbreaks, less starvation, more food, larger territory, and less environmental stresses.
If man does not manage the annual excesses of wildlife, natural controls will. The quality of available habitat controls the number of survivors during stressful conditions and rapid reproductive rates produce an annual surplus that can either be harvested and enjoyed or totally wasted.
Natural controls of disease, starvation, predation, exposure and hypothermia are not kind, certainly not as kind and swift as hunting. Dense populations cause stress, malnutrition and weakened animals. Increased interaction also multiplies opportunities for disease transmission.

Quote :

Hunters were the first conservationists in America
Teddy Roosevelt established the first national parks, developed conservation programs and started the wildlife preserve program.
Other early conservationists joined Roosevelt to start the Boone and Crockett Club, one of the first conservation groups in the world.
Key Conservationists, such as Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold, were hunters.
Conservation groups flourished on the national and local level during the 1920's-30's and 40's. They were primarily composed of hunters.
Hunters led the way in the restoration of America's wildlife.
Hunters still lead the way in conservation
Millions of people hunt and also contribute to the welfare of wildlife in America.
Responsible hunters belong to wildlife groups and actively contribute time, money and effort.
You should seek out and join a wildlife organization where you feel you can contribute the most to wildlife.

Hunters as Conservationists

Let me re-word that then. Poachers...not "hunters".

Did I hear right? The bill passed?

It passed the house but maybe the senate can stop it if they come to their senses... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_on_an/us_obama_climate_analysis

Lucas McCain wrote:

It passed the house but maybe the senate can stop it if they come to their senses... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_on_an/us_obama_climate_analysis

Yeah, that stamp a day cost will kill us all financially.

The Clean Energy Act and the Cap and Trade Act are separate issues.. That's two new taxes on the middle class...

Lucas McCain wrote:

The Clean Energy Act and the Cap and Trade Act are separate issues.. That's two new taxes on the middle class...

Why do you dislike democrats so much? And why weren't you crying about your taxes when Bush was taxing the pants off the middle class?

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

The Clean Energy Act and the Cap and Trade Act are separate issues.. That's two new taxes on the middle class...

Why do you dislike democrats so much? And why weren't you crying about your taxes when Bush was taxing the pants off the middle class?

It's very likely that Lucas did have a problem with this. I know lots of republicans that did not give Bush a break for this.

But I will let Lucas speak for himself.

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

The Clean Energy Act and the Cap and Trade Act are separate issues.. That's two new taxes on the middle class...

Why do you dislike democrats so much? And why weren't you crying about your taxes when Bush was taxing the pants off the middle class?

That is funny... My taxes actually went down under Bush..

My problem with Bush is he spent like a liberal...

CLEAN ENERGY ACT...... my Friends, research the business GOOD OLD AL G. has ready for the energy credits... he will be a billionaire. The last major acts we had like this closed our foundries, drastically effected our security, just like this one will.... another tax burden on the middle class... as they watch more of their jobs go out of country. These things will happen if the energy act " works" or not. We will still continue to do business with China and India , the worst offenders, and they will be dancing with glee knowing that their prices will even be MORE COMPETITIVE.... and sadly the average American will have no choice but to buy the cheaper products .......... THESE ARE FACTS, that should be weighed before anybody supports this bill. Another fact is people in AMERICA are living longer than ever.... over burdening the health care industries, and with such demand prices are rising.... is the air we breathe that bad... Is the object to live forever....OR IS THE OBJECT to redistribute wealth, not to all classes BUT TO THE RICH !!!!!!!! mY LIBERAL FRIENDS, CAN'T YOU LOOK AT YOUR PARTIES PRINCIPLES, AND SEE they do not practice them....So far the people OBAMA has helped the most has been CORPORATE AMERICA, and he has HURT THE MIDDLE CLASS....AGAIN, THESE ARE FACTS. just like the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, THE PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, THE MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, THIS NEW " green " movement will turn into another BEAST LIKE THOSE MENTIONED, if administered wrongly and rashly ....... another way for GOVERNMENT and THE RICH to get the money, as the middle class and the AMERICAN dream slowly disappear. A RESPONSIBLE LEADER MUST PRIORITIZE, Obama is not.....for the time, there is no need to drastically get involved in this CLEAN ENERGY ACT, NOW, we must be building up oil supplies, instead refineries are closed ! Now we must be using our greatest energy resource COAL, NOW WE MUST BE IN A POSITION to tell mid east to go to hell, and now government must rebuild the middle class, and start REGULATING THE GREED IN BIG BUSINESS. The time will come when more studies are conclusive, and the whole world will participate in new GREEN MOVEMENT.... MAYBE IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE; but the time is not now..... OUR Country is COLLAPSING, so lets see leadership in the areas where it is needed NOW....TO PASS THIS AMERICAN CLEAN ENERGY AND SECURITY ACT OF 2009, and no doubt it would be filled with PORK as usual, would just be another NAIL IN THE COFFIN.......ok, Bush was a greedy pig....a mistake....AIG AID started with him, BUT CONTINUED WITH OBAMA IN AN EVEN BIGGER WAY......ETC .Stop bickering PLEASE, look at the country we all LOVE .... IN THE LAST EIGHT YEARS IT GOT " a hard right from Bush" AND NOW WE ARE GETTING " A HARD LEFT FROM OBAMA"...... America is on the MAT, and our leaders are failing us, STILL OUT FOR THEMSELVES,living in a high class world, with great benefits, all made possible for them BY THEM....... AND IF A GRASS ROOTS MOVEMENT DOES NOT HAPPEN SOON, and democrats and republicans don't together LOOK AT THE FACTS.... it's all over, and we will sit by and WAIT FOR THE CHINESE TO TAKE US OVER.....THESE ARE THE FACTS, AND IT'S TIME TO PRIORITIZE !!!!!!!! the Outcast.

Lucas McCain wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

The Clean Energy Act and the Cap and Trade Act are separate issues.. That's two new taxes on the middle class...

Why do you dislike democrats so much? And why weren't you crying about your taxes when Bush was taxing the pants off the middle class?

That is funny... My taxes actually went down under Bush..

Wow. Consider yourself lucky. Our taxes were horrible under Bush and have gone down under Obama.

Outcast makes some valid and interesting points about Obama, Bush and the Government in general. What do the rest of you think?

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

The Clean Energy Act and the Cap and Trade Act are separate issues.. That's two new taxes on the middle class...

Why do you dislike democrats so much? And why weren't you crying about your taxes when Bush was taxing the pants off the middle class?

That is funny... My taxes actually went down under Bush..

Wow. Consider yourself lucky. Our taxes were horrible under Bush and have gone down under Obama.

Taxes down..... woooooo, BUT our savings are gone, our retirement funds are hurting, our cash is worthless because of the Obama printing press.... we have more debt than ever.... AND HE GIVES AID TO AIG, GM, BIG BANKS etc.The people who had nothing in first place will benefit from this Obama, seems like " those who are too big to fail will too" , but to the average guy in the middle class, who was responsible, had insurance, had a savings, had a retirement.... HE'S SCREWED...... REALIZE IT...... Obama is not out for AMERICA..... Like I have said before, He is fiddling while Rome is burning " ! OBAMA IS DIABOLICAL... and is destroying the country that I love.... LOOK AT THE FACTS.....SIMPLE

Outcast wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

The Clean Energy Act and the Cap and Trade Act are separate issues.. That's two new taxes on the middle class...

Why do you dislike democrats so much? And why weren't you crying about your taxes when Bush was taxing the pants off the middle class?

That is funny... My taxes actually went down under Bush..

Wow. Consider yourself lucky. Our taxes were horrible under Bush and have gone down under Obama.

Taxes down..... woooooo, BUT our savings are gone, our retirement funds are hurting, our cash is worthless because of the Obama printing press.... we have more debt than ever.... AND HE GIVES AID TO AIG, GM, BIG BANKS etc.The people who had nothing in first place will benefit from this Obama, seems like " those who are too big to fail will too" , but to the average guy in the middle class, who was responsible, had insurance, had a savings, had a retirement.... HE'S SCREWED...... REALIZE IT...... Obama is not out for AMERICA..... Like I have said before, He is fiddling while Rome is burning " ! OBAMA IS DIABOLICAL... and is destroying the country that I love.... LOOK AT THE FACTS.....SIMPLE

I lost a large majority of my savings as well (last year).....which obviously had nothing to do with President Obama.