Beck now calling Obama a racist who hates white people....

Lucas McCain wrote:

As well thought out and eloquently worded Ja'Far's response was it contained nothing about the actual health care issues of the bill. Only the insurance issue... So both you lady's prefer to let someone else explain how you feel about the issues mentioned???

What health care issues am I skirting? The bill is very literally an insurance reform measure.

Ja'far wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

As well thought out and eloquently worded Ja'Far's response was it contained nothing about the actual health care issues of the bill. Only the insurance issue... So both you lady's prefer to let someone else explain how you feel about the issues mentioned???

What health care issues am I skirting? The bill is very literally an insurance reform measure.

Well, you didn't discuss the part where Obama kills your grandparents and special needs babies, so.....

Ja'far wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

As well thought out and eloquently worded Ja'Far's response was it contained nothing about the actual health care issues of the bill. Only the insurance issue... So both you lady's prefer to let someone else explain how you feel about the issues mentioned???

What health care issues am I skirting? The bill is very literally an insurance reform measure.

True, but who's going to be in charge of your health care?? You or the government??

Annie Oakley wrote:

Ja'far wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

As well thought out and eloquently worded Ja'Far's response was it contained nothing about the actual health care issues of the bill. Only the insurance issue... So both you lady's prefer to let someone else explain how you feel about the issues mentioned???

What health care issues am I skirting? The bill is very literally an insurance reform measure.

Well, you didn't discuss the part where Obama kills your grandparents and special needs babies, so.....

You left that out too...

Lucas McCain wrote:

Ja'far wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

As well thought out and eloquently worded Ja'Far's response was it contained nothing about the actual health care issues of the bill. Only the insurance issue... So both you lady's prefer to let someone else explain how you feel about the issues mentioned???

What health care issues am I skirting? The bill is very literally an insurance reform measure.

True, but who's going to be in charge of your health care?? You or the government??

A more accurate comparison would be between insurance companies and the government. There is nothing in the bill, or anywhere, that would indicate necessary care will be denied.

In Obama's plan the government decides whats necessary... Scary thought..

Lucas McCain wrote:

In Obama's plan the government decides whats necessary... Scary thought..

Between insurance companies and the government, one of those entities has an extremely large motivation to deny coverage and the other does not. Not to mention the widespread availability of private insurance under the proposed bill. If you want a private firm to insure you, it remains your prerogative.

So how long will the private companies be able to survive if the government can do as they wish and just pass on the cost to tax payers??

Lucas McCain wrote:

So how long will the private companies be able to survive if the government can do as they wish and just pass on the cost to tax payers??

But I thought the government offered egregiously poor care, death panels, privacy invasion and all sorts of offensive services. Why would anyone ever choose it in the face of such pristine private insurance?

Because it will be a law that you have to purchase insurance and folks will take the cheapest option without regard to what they are getting...Most can't understand the bill..

Lucas McCain wrote:

Because it will be a law that you have to purchase insurance

That's not true.

Yea it will be law. Or pay stiff penalties if you don't..

Lucas McCain wrote:

Because it will be a law that you have to purchase insurance and folks will take the cheapest option without regard to what they are getting...Most can't understand the bill..

So your argument is that the people who do not have insurance now will purchase the government option and this will somehow cause private insurance to collapse?

Large and small corporations and business will by law be forced to provide insurance to all employees... which option do you think they will choose??

Cynthia Tucker: 45-65% Of Townhall Protesters Are Racists.

Mongo wrote:

Cynthia Tucker: 45-65% Of Townhall Protesters Are Racists.

I do think it was wrong of her to make assumptions but we all know that lots of these protesters are racists and simply can't deal with a black man being our president but I hope she's way off on those numbers. I would say closer to 30% and it also depends on the location. I live in a county where the n word is still used pretty freely among friends. I could easily see where she is coming from but you just can't make assumptions. They may not be racists at all, they may just be ignorant.

Lucas McCain wrote:

Large and small corporations and business will by law be forced to provide insurance to all employees... which option do you think they will choose??

Quote :

The report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said the public option proposed by Democrats would not drive private insurers out of business and most people would still choose to get their medical coverage through employers. Republicans often Site the Lewin Group as a source to propagate this myth. See Lewin Group information here at Myth 8

Lewin Group, which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of UnitedHealthCare

Any individual insurance policy (as opposed to a group insurance policy) that is in effect today will be permitted to remain in effect; however, any new [individual] policies issued after the law becomes effective will be required to comply with the standards set out in the section relating to policies offered via the new Health Insurance Exchange. It's grandfathering, not elimination.

Quote :

Small businesses that already already provide health insurance to their employees will be not be affected. In addition, 96% of small businesses would see no tax increases because of this bill. Rising costs prompting small businesses to drop health insurance benefits.

In addition:
• Small businesses value health insurance as a key to business success because it allows them to attract better employees.
• 78% of small business owners surveyed who do not offer coverage would like to do so.
• 80% of those who would like to offer coverage cite the expense of coverage as a reason why they don't.

Quote :

The current draft bills also include a tax credit for small businesses that provide health care coverage for their workers. This benefit will make it easier for small businesses to provide coverage. Together with the exchange, these reforms will help small firms’ bottom line, allowing them to focus more of their attention on running their business and creating jobs.

(see first source) The Senate's HELP Bill also addressed this issue. From the July '09 version:
Choice of public and private plan, for uninsured, small businesses with less than 25 employees, and those with a premium share over 12.5% of their income.

Small Business Credits - employers with 50 or fewer full-time workers who pay 60 percent or more of their employees’ health insurance premiums will be permitted to receive tax credits for subsidizing coverage. Credit amounts are based on the type of employee coverage, the size of the employer, and the proportion of time the employer paid employee health insurance expenses, and are available for up to 3 consecutive years.
Self-employed individuals who do not receive credits for purchasing coverage through the Gateway are eligible.
Small Business Program Credits. Beginning in 2010, eligible. Employers required to pay 60% of premiums or be assessed $750 for each full-time employee not covered and $375 for each part-time employee not covered.

Quote :

According to the nonpartisan Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation, 96% of small businesses would see no tax increases under this proposal. Furthermore, all small businesses will greatly benefit from the insurance market reforms in the bill. Small businesses face many obstacles in achieving health care that other larger companies and organizations are able to overcome.

The bill includes key insurance reforms, which are of particular benefit to small businesses. The legislation prohibits insurers from excluding coverage based on pre-existing coverage, from selectively refusing to renew coverage, and from charging people different premiums based on their gender, occupation or pre-existing condition. Finally, the bill requires a standardized annual out-of-pocket limit so that no small business owner or employee’s family face bankruptcy due to medical expenses.

The bill also includes a permanent tax credit to help small, low-wage businesses in offering coverage. The smallest firms with average wages below $20,000 would receive a tax credit equal to 50 percent of the employer’s share of the premium. The credit would phase out for employers with between 10 and 25 employees and average wages between $20,000 and $40,000.

link

[quote="gringaloca"]

Mongo wrote:

Cynthia Tucker: 45-65% Of Townhall Protesters Are Racists.



I do think it was wrong of her to make assumptions but we all know that lots of these protesters are racists and simply can't deal with a black man being our president but I hope she's way off on those numbers. I would say closer to 30% and it also depends on the location. I live in a county where the n word is still used pretty freely among friends. I could easily see where she is coming from but you just can't make assumptions. They may not be racists at all, they may just be ignorant.

No gringa, I don't know that and I don't know how you can assume you do either.

30%? Really? Why?

The n word gets used more around this area by blacks than by whites, are they racist when doing so?

Ignorant? Because they disagree with Obama's Health Care policy, they're ignorant?

Thanks Gringa.. Just like I said.. The small and large will go to the government option driving private insurers out of business leaving nothing but ObamaCare...

Lucas McCain wrote:

Thanks Gringa.. Just like I said.. The small and large will go to the government option driving private insurers out of business leaving nothing but ObamaCare...

France has a universal government insurance system, far wider in scope that the proposed here yet they also have a rather robust private insurance market. How do you square that?

Just like England and Canada.. Once they see how bad the government program is they will do any thing to get better coverage and services.... The cost will be to high for the average person... Only the rich will get the best... The rest will have to settle.... Any links to France's "robust" private market and it's cost compared to the government option???

Lucas McCain wrote:

Just like England and Canada.. Once they see how bad the government program is they will do any thing to get better coverage and services.... The cost will be to high for the average person... Only the rich will get the best... The rest will have to settle.... Any links to France's "robust" private market and it's cost compared to the government option???

It's fairly common knowledge that the French private insurance industry operates as supplemental coverage to the provided public insurance. I'm sure that information is ubiquitous. It's also fairly expensive, but routinely ranked among the best in the world by the WHO.

As to your assessment of public opinion in countries with universal healthcare, I think it's very skewed:



It seems the public in other countries are far more satisfied with their systems than Americans are with the US's.

OECD

France's is system is broke just like ours will be....
July 2002 —
The health care systems of both France and the U.S. face crises of unprecedented scope. Both countries possess large and growing elderly populations that threaten to push the pace of health care price increases even higher than their already faster-than-inflation rates. Observers in both countries fear that outlays for increasingly expensive medical treatments and technologies will wreak havoc on public spending priorities. In the U.S, unchecked health care inflation will imperil Medicare and Medicaid, spur ever-larger federal budget deficits, and push up the embarrassingly large number of Americans without any medical insurance at all. In France, already insufficient resources have spurred strikes and demonstrations by doctors, while health care price hikes endanger that country's commitment to its European partners to maintain low budget deficits. A delinquent performance by France could place the entire project of European Monetary Union in peril.

Lucas McCain wrote:

France's is system is broke just like ours will be....
July 2002 —
The health care systems of both France and the U.S. face crises of unprecedented scope. Both countries possess large and growing elderly populations that threaten to push the pace of health care price increases even higher than their already faster-than-inflation rates. Observers in both countries fear that outlays for increasingly expensive medical treatments and technologies will wreak havoc on public spending priorities. In the U.S, unchecked health care inflation will imperil Medicare and Medicaid, spur ever-larger federal budget deficits, and push up the embarrassingly large number of Americans without any medical insurance at all. In France, already insufficient resources have spurred strikes and demonstrations by doctors, while health care price hikes endanger that country's commitment to its European partners to maintain low budget deficits. A delinquent performance by France could place the entire project of European Monetary Union in peril.

Currently France has the best healthcare in the world. It may not be perfect but no system ever is. It's still light years better than what we have.

Quote :

Opponents of health care reform have spread a few erroneous myths about the French health care system, describing it as "socialized medicine" that restricts the patients' right to choose their own doctors. This myth, among others, is not true.

Although the French government is working to reform their system, France today presents an instructive example of government-run health care that successfully provides universal coverage and high-quality care. In fact, in 2001, the World Health Organization (WHO) ranked France as the best country in the world for health care; in contrast, the United States ranked 37th. WHO's criteria included universal coverage, responsive health care providers, freedom of choice for patients, doctors' freedom to make medical decisions, and the health and longevity of the country's population.

Among the other misleading myths about the French health care system is that the government controls doctors' decisions about treatment, that there are long waiting lists for specialized procedures, that doctors offices are crowded, and that it is impossible to get an appointment. Not one of these myths is true.

Dr. Jean-Francois Lacronique, professor of medicine at the University of Paris who lived in the US for several years, explains that the US and French health care systems have similar objectives. "The challenges in France and the United States are the same," he points out: "To reconcile three different objectives: egalitarianism (equal access), excellent quality care, and economics."

The French, like Americans, are covered through their jobs. However, under the French system, the unemployed and indigent have basic health care. The French government is exploring the idea of raising taxes to pay for health care; however, in a recent poll the French people, though satisfied with their system, stated that they are against paying a new tax to maintain it.

Last month, knowing that I was researching an article on health care in France, an American friend in Paris whom I will call A invited me to accompany her when she went for her mammogram so that I could witness the efficiency and privacy of the clinic for myself. By the time A was dressed and ready to leave the clinic, she had her results. Unfortunately, they revealed a spot on her breast and she was immediately scheduled for a biopsy. Although A lives in the US, she previously lived in France and prefers to have her medical tests done there. Even though she has insurance in the US and doesn't have it in France, it is less expensive for her to pay out-of-pocket in France. If she were covered under the French system, it would be even less expensive. Unfortunately, after I returned to the US, A e-mailed me that her tumor is malignant and that she prefers to remain in Paris for treatment.

Another American friend who has lived in Paris for twenty years told me that when her husband had triple bypass surgery in France last year, it cost the equivalent of 20,000 American dollars even though he doesn't have French insurance; while in the US, it would have cost him 300,000 dollars. I could tell you even more stories.

There are several reasons why health care is more affordable in France than it is here. Physicians in France earn approximately twice what the average French person earns while in the US, physicians earn eight times more than the average American. Why? For one thing, it is the cost of education. When students are accepted into medical school in France, their tuition is covered by the government, so doctors do not carry the burden of heavy debt when they graduate -- and that cost is not passed on to patients. The French legal system, too, has an impact because it isn't a litigious as ours, rather it is tort-adverse, thus doctors do not have to fear malpractice suits and the high cost of malpractice insurance, as they do in the US -- and that cost is not passed on to patients.

Also, the French (under their Social Security system) have efficient standardized billing and electronic patient reimbursement, which eliminates the expense of non-medical staff and billing specialists to handle time-consuming, wasteful paperwork. In his call for health care reform, President Obama has emphasized the need for similar efficacious, streamlined measures to help reduce costs and expedite care in the US.

Finally, several years ago, the French government established a program to reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals and lab tests called "Vitale."

How did the French government develop its health care system? They worked with private insurers and health care providers. Medical doctors agreed to participate in government-operated health care as long as the law protected patients' freedom of choice and doctors' control over medical decisions.

On the business side, the government worked with the insurance industry by permitting them to administer government health care funds. Also, private insurers offer supplemental insurance for expenses not covered by Social Security. Since ninety percent of the French have the supplemental insurance, the industry hasn't lost profits, but instead is thriving.

The key to the French government's approach to health care perhaps, is the willingness to provide affordable care to everyone. Hopefully, in the US, health care providers, the insurance industry, and Congress now have the will to look beyond their individual interests, work with the Obama administration, and together develop a mutually beneficial system that provides affordable quality care for all. According to the latest polls, 53 percent of the American people want health care reform. If our allies the French can do it, so can w

link

What good is it if you can't afford it or it bankrupts your country... Or what If you need a doctor and he's on strike??