Interesting blog from Margaret and Helen.... Warning, some profanity.

Some interesting points about Dick Cheney.

Quote :

I have to admit that I am more than a little perplexed by Dick’s rise to power. He flunked out of Yale – something even George W. Bush didn’t do – and has at least two DWI’s on his record – one more than Georgie Boy. So basically from 2001 to 2009 we had two dry-drunk idiots running the country. But only one of them has had the good sense to shut the hell up since leaving office.

Cheney came into politics as part of the Nixon administration and ended his politcal career with George W. Bush. Along the way he managed to skip the Reagan years opting instead to represent the least populous state in the Union. In fact, of the past five Republican presidents since Cheney got into politics, the only one that Dick didn’t work for was Ronald Reagan. Talk about a guy who can’t pick a winning horse. He works for Nixon, Ford, skips Reagan, and then comes back for the two Bushes. Four failed Presidencies and this guy still thinks his shit doesn’t stink. Of course this is the guy who headed up the vice presidential search for George W. Bush only to decide to pick himself as the candidate. I’d say he’s mastered the art of not smelling his own shit.

During his tenure as Secretary of Defense he actively worked to reduce the size of our military. And when asked about the FIVE deferments that kept him from serving in the military he responded by saying, “I had other priorities in the sixties than military service.” And yet today he wants us to listen to him pontificate on how best to protect our nation? He shot his friend in the face for goodness sakes. Too bad for his hunting buddies that he got those deferments because the military might have helped him with his aim.

Link to full blog...

I'll have to admit that I am a LOT perplexed as to the rise to power of a coke snorting Chicago thug who follows the lead of anti- Americans like the Rev. Wright, Saul Alinsky and proven terrorist Bill Ayres... A man with no decision making or military experience at all.. Besides the corrupt UAW union, I wonder what other criminal organizations pulls this puppets strings???

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'll have to admit that I am a LOT perplexed as to the rise to power of a coke snorting Chicago thug who follows the lead of anti- Americans like the Rev. Wright, Saul Alinsky and proven terrorist Bill Ayres... A man with no decision making or military experience at all.. Besides the corrupt UAW union, I wonder what other criminal organizations pulls this puppets strings???

He reads a TelePrompter really well, though.

Let's try to stay on topic, everyone. If we could differentiate the "Obama bashing" threads from the "Cheney bashing" ones, it would make things a lot easier on me.

Annie Oakley wrote:

Let's try to stay on topic, everyone. If we could differentiate the "Obama bashing" threads from the "Cheney bashing" ones, it would make things a lot easier on me.

True true. We're talking about the alcoholic chickenhawk right now. And we aren't talking about Bush either so no need to bring up his previous cocaine habit.

gringaloca wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

Let's try to stay on topic, everyone. If we could differentiate the "Obama bashing" threads from the "Cheney bashing" ones, it would make things a lot easier on me.

True true. We're talking about the alcoholic chickenhawk right now. And we aren't talking about Bush either so no need to bring up his previous cocaine habit.

In all fairness, Obama liked his cocaine as well.

Okay, children! Play nice and bash one person per thread at a time.

Fair enough, Annie. You are right, we need to get back on track of what the thread is about.

Cheney has never been one of my favorites, though I do have to admit that I think that I'd really enjoy sharing a beer with GWB.

Judge Roy Bean wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

Let's try to stay on topic, everyone. If we could differentiate the "Obama bashing" threads from the "Cheney bashing" ones, it would make things a lot easier on me.

True true. We're talking about the alcoholic chickenhawk right now. And we aren't talking about Bush either so no need to bring up his previous cocaine habit.

In all fairness, Obama liked his cocaine as well.

I think what I makes Obama's experimentation with pot and coke different from the Bush's and Cheney's of the world is that he was honest about it and didn't hide it all behind a veil of secrecy and pretend it never happened. 60 minutes put it best by saying

Quote :

Barack Obama took all the controversial winds out of the sails by being upfront and honest. There’s no controversy in admitting that your human, and most politicians do not get this simple concept. Obama does an amazing job of being human and authentic..

We were all teens and did incredibly stupid things myself included but we grew up and learned from those experiences. Then there are those who didn't learn anything and instead feel they are above the law and just try to cover it up. I commend him for being real enough to admit it. And from what I read he didn't "love" the cocaine or anything. He was confused and trying to numb his emotions because he was having a real identity crisis. Understandable situation for a college age kid but Bush was 30 years old when he got his DUI and here's a video of Bush blitzed at a wedding party shot years after he claimed he went cold turkey.

Bush drunk at party

Then of course there is Cheney's two DUI charges that even got his license suspended for a while. But of course most of the records pertaining to those events have been destroyed or lost. hmmm

I'll post about the chicken hawk behavior later. I'm getting a headache.

I'm glad Obama admitted his coke habit.. At least he won't be allowed to make any decisions on nukes... http://husaria.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/does-obama-have-cocaine-related-mental-impairment/

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'm glad Obama admitted his coke habit.. At least he won't be allowed to make any decisions on nukes... http://husaria.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/does-obama-have-cocaine-related-mental-impairment/

Did he have a "coke habit" or did he try it a couple of times? I've tried things before and it didn't become a habit. We all have. He's not an out of control drug addict who has mental problems. That's just ludicrous. Besides....

Quote :

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone

Glass houses people.....

At least he was truthful enough to talk about it and not hide like a coward.

gringaloca wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

Let's try to stay on topic, everyone. If we could differentiate the "Obama bashing" threads from the "Cheney bashing" ones, it would make things a lot easier on me.

True true. We're talking about the alcoholic chickenhawk right now. And we aren't talking about Bush either so no need to bring up his previous cocaine habit.

And you talk about glass houses.. Give me a break.. I don't care how much crap Obama has run up his nose.. I'm just glad he can't place his finger on the trigger....And you seem to have plenty of stones to cast around that are mostly fact less and un-proven..

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'm glad Obama admitted his coke habit.. At least he won't be allowed to make any decisions on nukes... http://husaria.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/does-obama-have-cocaine-related-mental-impairment/

Did he have a "coke habit" or did he try it a couple of times? I've tried things before and it didn't become a habit. We all have. He's not an out of control drug addict who has mental problems. That's just ludicrous. Besides....

Quote :

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone

Glass houses people.....

At least he was truthful enough to talk about it and not hide like a coward.

As far as we know, he was truthful. I don't know about you, but I never had a friendship with him, I don't know how truthful on his cocaine use he's really being.

Lucas McCain wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Annie Oakley wrote:

Let's try to stay on topic, everyone. If we could differentiate the "Obama bashing" threads from the "Cheney bashing" ones, it would make things a lot easier on me.

True true. We're talking about the alcoholic chickenhawk right now. And we aren't talking about Bush either so no need to bring up his previous cocaine habit.

And you talk about glass houses.. Give me a break.. I don't care how much crap Obama has run up his nose.. I'm just glad he can't place his finger on the trigger....And you seem to have plenty of stones to cast around that are mostly fact less and un-proven..

Says you. What you see as fact it pretty entertaining. And I'm so sure that Obama wants to nuke the earth. Since when has that been at the top of his agenda. Right now he's too busy trying to repair the damage that was done from the last administration. Have you ever once thought that maybe there is a chance you could be wrong? Seriously?

Mongo wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'm glad Obama admitted his coke habit.. At least he won't be allowed to make any decisions on nukes... http://husaria.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/does-obama-have-cocaine-related-mental-impairment/

Did he have a "coke habit" or did he try it a couple of times? I've tried things before and it didn't become a habit. We all have. He's not an out of control drug addict who has mental problems. That's just ludicrous. Besides....

Quote :

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone

Glass houses people.....

At least he was truthful enough to talk about it and not hide like a coward.

As far as we know, he was truthful. I don't know about you, but I never had a friendship with him, I don't know how truthful on his cocaine use he's really being.

Ok. None of us have been personal buddies with Obama. That's a fact we can all agree on (I hope).

Now what about the original point of the thread and Cheney's alcoholic/chickenhawk behavior. How do you feel about him ducking out of serving our country on the battlefield so many times?

gringaloca wrote:

Mongo wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'm glad Obama admitted his coke habit.. At least he won't be allowed to make any decisions on nukes... http://husaria.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/does-obama-have-cocaine-related-mental-impairment/

Did he have a "coke habit" or did he try it a couple of times? I've tried things before and it didn't become a habit. We all have. He's not an out of control drug addict who has mental problems. That's just ludicrous. Besides....

Quote :

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone

Glass houses people.....

At least he was truthful enough to talk about it and not hide like a coward.

As far as we know, he was truthful. I don't know about you, but I never had a friendship with him, I don't know how truthful on his cocaine use he's really being.

Ok. None of us have been personal buddies with Obama. That's a fact we can all agree on (I hope).

Now what about the original point of the thread and Cheney's alcoholic/chickenhawk behavior. How do you feel about him ducking out of serving our country on the battlefield so many times?

I feel the same way you do about Bill Clinton dodging the draft... Next...

Lucas McCain wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Mongo wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'm glad Obama admitted his coke habit.. At least he won't be allowed to make any decisions on nukes... http://husaria.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/does-obama-have-cocaine-related-mental-impairment/

Did he have a "coke habit" or did he try it a couple of times? I've tried things before and it didn't become a habit. We all have. He's not an out of control drug addict who has mental problems. That's just ludicrous. Besides....

Quote :

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone

Glass houses people.....

At least he was truthful enough to talk about it and not hide like a coward.

As far as we know, he was truthful. I don't know about you, but I never had a friendship with him, I don't know how truthful on his cocaine use he's really being.

Ok. None of us have been personal buddies with Obama. That's a fact we can all agree on (I hope).

Now what about the original point of the thread and Cheney's alcoholic/chickenhawk behavior. How do you feel about him ducking out of serving our country on the battlefield so many times?

I feel the same way you do about Bill Clinton dodging the draft... Next...

Once again, this isn't about Bill Clinton or anyone else besides Dick Cheney. How do you feel about Dick Cheney and his cowardly behavior of avoiding service? I can't read your mind.

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Mongo wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'm glad Obama admitted his coke habit.. At least he won't be allowed to make any decisions on nukes... http://husaria.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/does-obama-have-cocaine-related-mental-impairment/

Did he have a "coke habit" or did he try it a couple of times? I've tried things before and it didn't become a habit. We all have. He's not an out of control drug addict who has mental problems. That's just ludicrous. Besides....

Quote :

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone

Glass houses people.....

At least he was truthful enough to talk about it and not hide like a coward.

As far as we know, he was truthful. I don't know about you, but I never had a friendship with him, I don't know how truthful on his cocaine use he's really being.

Ok. None of us have been personal buddies with Obama. That's a fact we can all agree on (I hope).

Now what about the original point of the thread and Cheney's alcoholic/chickenhawk behavior. How do you feel about him ducking out of serving our country on the battlefield so many times?

I feel the same way you do about Bill Clinton dodging the draft... Next...

Once again, this isn't about Bill Clinton or anyone else besides Dick Cheney. How do you feel about Dick Cheney and his cowardly behavior of avoiding service? I can't read your mind.

Do you even know what a deferment is...Millions received military deferments.. Next.. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1206498/posts..

Lucas McCain wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Mongo wrote:

gringaloca wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

I'm glad Obama admitted his coke habit.. At least he won't be allowed to make any decisions on nukes... http://husaria.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/does-obama-have-cocaine-related-mental-impairment/

Did he have a "coke habit" or did he try it a couple of times? I've tried things before and it didn't become a habit. We all have. He's not an out of control drug addict who has mental problems. That's just ludicrous. Besides....

Quote :

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone

Glass houses people.....

At least he was truthful enough to talk about it and not hide like a coward.

As far as we know, he was truthful. I don't know about you, but I never had a friendship with him, I don't know how truthful on his cocaine use he's really being.

Ok. None of us have been personal buddies with Obama. That's a fact we can all agree on (I hope).

Now what about the original point of the thread and Cheney's alcoholic/chickenhawk behavior. How do you feel about him ducking out of serving our country on the battlefield so many times?

I feel the same way you do about Bill Clinton dodging the draft... Next...

Once again, this isn't about Bill Clinton or anyone else besides Dick Cheney. How do you feel about Dick Cheney and his cowardly behavior of avoiding service? I can't read your mind.

Do you even know what a deferment is...Millions received military deferments.. Next.. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1206498/posts..

Thanks for avoiding the question once again, that says it all. And you are a freeper? That explains it.

I guess you didn't understand deferments.. There was nothing cowardly about Cheney's deferment.. He 26 years old, married, and had a child at the time.. Not close to one A classification... What WAS cowardly was Clinton's deferment... He was one A classed and chose to flee to England to smoke dope and denounce his country in public at a time of war.. True cowardice... To answer your question AGAIN I have NO problem with Cheney's deferment.. Do you have a problem with Clinton's true cowardice in avoiding military service??

Lucas McCain wrote:

I guess you didn't understand deferments.. There was nothing cowardly about Cheney's deferment.. He 26 years old, married, and had a child at the time.. Not close to one A classification... What WAS cowardly was Clinton's deferment... He was one A classed and chose to flee to England to smoke dope and denounce his country in public at a time of war.. True cowardice... To answer your question AGAIN I have NO problem with Cheney's deferment.. Do you have a problem with Clinton's true cowardice in avoiding military service??

President Clinton did more good for this country than Cheney ever dreamed of doing.

First...Let's take a look at the definition of chickenhawk in political terms.

A true chickenhawk is generally a male who tend to advocate, or are fervent supporters of those who advocate, military solutions to political problems, andpersonally declined to take advantage of a significant opportunity to serve in uniform during wartime.
Bill Clinton isn't a fervent support of those who advocate military solutions to political problems. He's more of a diplomat.
According to the Online Urban Dictionary defines a chickenhawk as "A politician or other person who promotes war without having had any personal experience of it; especially those who have avoided the experience." Another reference to chickenhawks is that "the closest they have come to a tank is a think-tank."
That would describe folks like Dick Cheney and George W. Bush.

Another description is

Quote :

"A 'chicken hawk' is one who strikes the pose of a warrior, who imputes the personal courage of a soldier in combat to themselves by virtue of the fact that they are in favor of sending that soldier off to war, or who parades around with the pretense of personal courage and resolve while assuming none of the risks. And a 'chicken hawk' will, conversely, attempt to depict those who oppose such wars as being weak, spineless and cowardly even though the war opponents are not seeking to avoid any personal risk to themselves, but instead, are arguing against subjecting their fellow citizens to what they perceive are unnecessary dangers," Greenwald wrote.

"A 'chicken hawk' is one who fails to recognize these logical principles by desperately equating advocacy of wars with fighting a war itself, or opposition to wars with running away from risks. 'Chicken hawks' are not those who simply urge war without fighting in it, but who urge war and then pretend that doing so makes them courageous, powerful and strong. They are the ones who use dichotomies such as strong/weak, resolute/spineless, and courageous/cowardly to describe not those who fight or run away from wars, but those who encourage or oppose wars from a safe distance," Greenwald wrote.

Link

Quote :

Republican conservatives attacked President Clinton for having questioned the Vietnam War. But unlike Republican "chickenhawks", liberals like Bill Clinton fought to save all American young men from injury and/or death in a senseless war – which most of us now belatedly understand was the right thing to do. –
On the other hand there were literally millions of dishonest hypocritical, cowardly conservatives who supported the war and argued in favor of other young Americans going off to fight and die in Vietnam, while "conserving" their own precious draft dodging hides stateside! Here are just a few of these high profile, holier than thou hypocrites:

* George W. Bush – used his family connections (what else is new?!?) to get into the Air National Guard and then "deserted" his post for two years. but still got an "Honorable Discharge".

* Dick Cheney – sought graduate school deferment, (too smart to die).

link

Quote :

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried:

"On Oct. 6, 1965, the Selective Service lifted its ban against drafting married men who had no children. Nine months and two days later, Mr. Cheney's first daughter, Elizabeth, was born."

This quote comes from a Saturday NYTimes article --
"Cheney's Five Draft Deferments During the Vietnam Era Emerge as a Campaign Issue" -- discussing the lengths VP Dick Cheney went to in order to avoid serving during the Viet Nam war.

It is apparent from the piece that Richard Cheney did everything humanly possible -- short of fleeing to Canada -- to avoid military conscription: He applied for and recieved 5 student deferments, a number described as "incredible" by professor David Curry of the University of Missouri in St. Louis. Curry has written extensively about the draft, including a 1985 book, "Sunshine Patriots: Punishment and the Vietnam Offender." The Times quotes Mr. Curry as observing: "That's a lot of times for the draft board to say O.K."

* Three weeks and a day after the Gulf of Tonkin resolution passed (giving President Johnson unlimited military force in Vietnam), Cheney married Lynn Cheney.

* Within a day or so of the end of deferment for "Married w/o children," Mr. and Mrs. Cheney conceived their first child.

Here's the rest of Cheney's well timed actions:

In February 1962, when Mr. Cheney was classified as 1-A available for service he was doing poorly at Yale. But the military was taking only older men at that point, and like others who were in college at the time, Mr. Cheney seemed to have little concern about being drafted.

In June, he left Yale. After returning home to Casper, a small city in east-central Wyoming, he worked as a lineman for a power company.

At that point, the Vietnam War was still just a glimmer on the horizon. In 1962, only 82,060 men were inducted into the service, the fewest since 1949. Mr. Cheney was eligible for the draft but, as he said during his confirmation hearings in 1989, he was not called up because the Selective Service System was taking only older men.

But by 1963, ferment in Vietnam was rising. Mr. Cheney enrolled in Casper Community College in January 1963 he turned 22 that month and sought his first student deferment on March 20, according to records from the Selective Service System. After transferring to the University of Wyoming at Laramie, he sought his second student deferment on July 23, 1963.

On Aug. 7, 1964, Congress approved the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which allowed President Lyndon B. Johnson to use unlimited military force in Vietnam. The war escalated rapidly from there.

Just 22 days later, Mr. Cheney married his high school sweetheart, Lynne. He sought his third student deferment on Oct. 14, 1964.

In May 1965, Mr. Cheney graduated from college and his draft status changed to 1-A. But he was married, which offered him some protection.

In July, President Johnson announced that he was doubling the number of men drafted. The number of inductions soared, to 382,010 in 1966 from 230,991 in 1965 and 112,386 in 1964.

Mr. Cheney obtained his fourth deferment when he started graduate school at the University of Wyoming on Nov. 1, 1965.

On Oct. 6, 1965, the Selective Service lifted its ban against drafting married men who had no children. Nine months and two days later, Mr. Cheney's first daughter, Elizabeth, was born. On Jan. 19, 1966, when his wife was about 10 weeks pregnant, Mr. Cheney applied for 3-A status, the "hardship" exemption, which excluded men with children or dependent parents. It was granted.

In January 1967, Mr. Cheney turned 26 and was no longer eligible for the draft.

Quite frankly, I would have done the same thing as Cheney (if I wasn't 9 at the time). The difference between the Veep and me is that I wouldn't have the temerity to criticize someone who not only served in Viet Nam, but was wounded three times and won several honors for courage and bravery.

That would simply be hypocritical.

Cheney apparently has no such restraints. Of the American involvement in Vietnam, Dick Cheney was asked: "Was it a noble cause?

His answer: "Yes, indeed, I think it was."

Just not for him . . .

link

He picked being a cheerleader over serving our country. Talk about a sissy.

I guess by the definitions and left wing blogs posted, of which I can prove the opposite with a right wing blog, the only conclusion is that Cheney is a chickenhawk and Clinton is just a plain chicken..

Lucas McCain wrote:

I guess by the definitions and left wing blogs posted, of which I can prove the opposite with a right wing blog, the only conclusion is that Cheney is a chickenhawk and Clinton is just a plain chicken..

The information was from two articles and a blog. Cheney did get FIVE deferments and is a chickenhawk as described in the definition I posted. I just think it's pretty hypocritical that people who love war so much and think it's a great solution to conflicts but won't put their own behinds in danger. They have no problem sending other peoples children off to die. And as I said before, Clinton was against the war. He wasn't praising the war while he hid and got married and had a child just to avoid it. There is nothing chicken about being against a war. I'm far from a chicken but I don't want to serve in a war that is based on lies. Sometimes war is unavoidable but diplomacy should always be totally exhausted before we turn to war. It's frightening how many pro-war republicans there are in office who haven't served a day in the military. It's easy for them to send people off to die while they sit in their comfortable homes stateside.