The Speech...

Great speech. Covered many of the questions that so many were paranoid about. And Joe Wilson from South Carolina made himself look like a total fool. Never before during a presidential address has someone shown so little respect for our leader. Not just that but what he called out was a lie, was actually not. Apparently Mr. Wilson didn't bother to read the bill. No matter because President Obama was very clear and reached out to everyone, democrat and republican to make insurance available to EVERYONE in this country. As far as the rebuttal, I have to say that was the weakest response I have ever heard. He said basically nothing and maybe the republicans should take some time to listen to the president before they write their rebuttal since most of what he said was incorrect. And I liked how he was so for tort reform. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that he himself has been sued for medical malpractice three times. Who picks these people for the rebuttals? Whomever they are, they should lose their job after tonight. And republicans are supposed to trust some guy that got scammed by some British guys when he tried to buy the title of "Lord" and was totally taken. Good grief. It's sad.
I really feel sorry for the republican side after tonight and I can see why so many of them are embarrassed by some of the crazy people in their party. I do hope we can all do what the president said and stop bickering over silly nonsense and get this done to benefit our country. This is a great night for the president and for our country. Hopefully the republicans will *really* come to the table and work on problem together. Maybe it's wishful thinking but I like having hope for this country and for my uninsured loved ones...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090910/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_fact_check

Basically the same speech he gave in Feb... I'll judge it when I see the final bill..... Obama really needs a math lesson and some basic economics 101 courses...

The Dems will also have to get rid of Rangel for the bill to have any legitimacy... He is the poster child for corruption in the Obama administration.... And just maybe he will out Pelosi and drag her down with he ship too...

And for those of you who found Rep. Wilson's outburst was disgusting and immature...come to find out, he violated House rules, a rule made by the republicans while President Bush was in office. Here is the contact info to make sure this disrespectful, lying moron is held accountable for disrespecting our leader. Even his fellow republicans are embarrassed by him.

Categories of Unparliamentary Speech

Defaming or degrading the House
Criticism of the Speaker’s personal conduct
Impugning the motives of another Member
Charging falsehood or deception
Claiming lack of intelligence or knowledge
References to race, creed, or prejudice
Charges related to loyalty or patriotism

Committee on Rules - Republicans

U.S. House of Representatives
1627 Longworth Building
Washington, D.C. 20515

PHONE: (202) 225-9191
FAX: (202) 225-6763
EMAIL: Rules.Rs@mail.house.gov

I've already called and emailed along with tons of other people. This guy should resign along with his fellow South Carolinian Gov. Sanford. But I would also like to say thank you because they only helped the democrats with their ignorance. Thank you dummies.

Wilson's outburst in the chamber was wrong... He should have waited til after the speech to point out Obama's lies.... But Obama is getting better ... Only three or four lies in this speech....

I thought that when the Dems booed and hissed Bush at an address it was disgusting and immature also...And that wasn't just one idiot, but several... More hypocrisy from the left...

I liked how John McCain quickly jumped on Wilson for his outburst and demanded he apologize immediately and the rest of the GOP seems to agree with him. According to reports, Wilson quickly yielded to McCain's demand.

While McCain is not the highest ranking Repub in the Senate, I think in some ways he does hold a Patriachal role, sort of like the GOP "Grandpa" who doesn't have an official title but his years of service and wisdom have earned him a certain degree of "unofficial" leadership in the GOP Congress. A role I think he is very qualified for...........just as I felt he was qualified as being our president.

As far as the speech went, I have to agree with a poster on another forum many of us are on when he said he cannot see how there is enough waste in the system today to magically make insurance now affordable for everyone. It sounded good but I just don't see how the numbers will work out.

Like the poster stated, let's keep in mind, what we call waste in the system others call pork and some lobbyist is out there protecting that pork with loads of campaign contributions to senators and congressmen/women in both parties. If you try to cut out those pork projects, the lobbyists will find a way to prevent the bill from being passed. If there was so much waste, why haven't past administrations and congresses addressed them? I think the biggest reason is because it sounds good basically, "I am going to provide health insurance for all without raising your taxes or driving the deficit up even higher" which to me just does not seem to add up.

I agree with poster that I would have had more respect for Obama if he came right out and said, "I am sorry to say this but we are going to have to raise your taxes to insure all the lower income Americans by subsidizing their premiums." Atleast he would have been honest then. There were some reports that the bill would have been partially paid for by federal taxes on tobacco and alcohol. While I generally don't care for taxes on specific items, atleast these are two items that contribute to America's unhealthy lifestyle.

Wyatt Earp wrote:

I liked how John McCain quickly jumped on Wilson for his outburst and demanded he apologize immediately and the rest of the GOP seems to agree with him. According to reports, Wilson quickly yielded to McCain's demand.

While McCain is not the highest ranking Repub in the Senate, I think in some ways he does hold a Patriachal role, sort of like the GOP "Grandpa" who doesn't have an official title but his years of service and wisdom have earned him a certain degree of "unofficial" leadership in the GOP Congress. A role I think he is very qualified for...........just as I felt he was qualified as being our president.

I agree entirely. Though some will doubt this, I was on the fence between McCain and Obama for quite a while. Palin was the nail in the coffin for McCain for me.

Annie Oakley wrote:

I agree entirely. Though some will doubt this, I was on the fence between McCain and Obama for quite a while. Palin was the nail in the coffin for McCain for me.

I just kept telling myself that she is harmless as VP (think Dan Quayle) and the odds are good the McCain will live for atleast another 4 years.

At least Mr Wilson's outburst accomplished something.... Congress worked all day to close the loop holes in the bill that WOULD allow illegals to enroll in the federal program... If thats what it takes to call the presidents hand on his misinformation to the public then so be it.... It DID get something accomplished...

Lucas McCain wrote:

At least Mr Wilson's outburst accomplished something.... Congress worked all day to close the loop holes in the bill that WOULD allow illegals to enroll in the federal program... If thats what it takes to call the presidents hand on his misinformation to the public then so be it.... It DID get something accomplished...

What loopholes were there to be closed?

Lucas McCain wrote:

At least Mr Wilson's outburst accomplished something.... Congress worked all day to close the loop holes in the bill that WOULD allow illegals to enroll in the federal program... If thats what it takes to call the presidents hand on his misinformation to the public then so be it.... It DID get something accomplished...

The ends don't justify the means.

So you are OK with illegals enrolling in the program??

Ja'far wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

At least Mr Wilson's outburst accomplished something.... Congress worked all day to close the loop holes in the bill that WOULD allow illegals to enroll in the federal program... If thats what it takes to call the presidents hand on his misinformation to the public then so be it.... It DID get something accomplished...

What loopholes were there to be closed?

The main one was no means to verify citizenship... You could move here and enroll with no verification...

Lucas McCain wrote:

The main one was no means to verify citizenship... You could move here and enroll with no verification...

I would hardly consider that a "loophole" and is not something that can be deemed to "cover illegals." Illegal immigrants can go to hospitals and doctors now, purchase drugs at pharmacies, and even buy insurance. Do we need to close the "loophole" that allows illegal immigrants to buy Advil at the grocery store?

Evidently congress considered it a loophole that would allow abuse of the system.... I guess it's a matter of prospective...

Lucas McCain wrote:

Evidently congress considered it a loophole that would allow abuse of the system.... I guess it's a matter of prospective...

Having read the bill I can't imagine what could be changed that would prevent illegal immigrants from being covered. The only way a person here illegally could be covered by the bill would be through Medicaid, and there are already citizenship restrictions in place there. The only possible restriction that could be added to the bill would be to require proof of citizenship to purchase insurance, but that isn't required now, and certainly doesn't constitute "covering" anyone. And if they are paying for it why does anyone care? Adding a restriction like that just makes it a Republican "feel-good" amendment.

What provision was amended, exactly? What loophole was in place that was closed? What is the new language?

Don't shoot the messenger.. I saw it several times on the major news cast today.. And NO not Fox News... Like I said, I guess it's a matter of prospective...

Ja'far wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

Evidently congress considered it a loophole that would allow abuse of the system.... I guess it's a matter of prospective...

Having read the bill I can't imagine what could be changed that would prevent illegal immigrants from being covered. The only way a person here illegally could be covered by the bill would be through Medicaid, and there are already citizenship restrictions in place there. The only possible restriction that could be added to the bill would be to require proof of citizenship to purchase insurance, but that isn't required now, and certainly doesn't constitute "covering" anyone. And if they are paying for it why does anyone care? Adding a restriction like that just makes it a Republican "feel-good" amendment.

What provision was amended, exactly? What loophole was in place that was closed? What is the new language?

I would like to see this, too. I didn't hear anything about it on any of the news channels that I listened to.

Annie Oakley wrote:

Ja'far wrote:

Lucas McCain wrote:

Evidently congress considered it a loophole that would allow abuse of the system.... I guess it's a matter of prospective...

Having read the bill I can't imagine what could be changed that would prevent illegal immigrants from being covered. The only way a person here illegally could be covered by the bill would be through Medicaid, and there are already citizenship restrictions in place there. The only possible restriction that could be added to the bill would be to require proof of citizenship to purchase insurance, but that isn't required now, and certainly doesn't constitute "covering" anyone. And if they are paying for it why does anyone care? Adding a restriction like that just makes it a Republican "feel-good" amendment.

What provision was amended, exactly? What loophole was in place that was closed? What is the new language?

I would like to see this, too. I didn't hear anything about it on any of the news channels that I listened to.

So far everything I have read about it shows that illegals will not be covered under the new reform. The only time it mentions that I have seen is that they will be treated if they come into an emergency room, etc. If a person shows up in an ER with their arm torn off, they can't turn them away because they are illegal immigrants. That's just common decency.

Quote :

Illegal immigrants are specifically excluded from coverage. Of course, this means that they will be continue to get their healthcare from expensive emergency rooms, so that may not actually be a good thing.

The section on page 50 of HR 3200 aligns Health Insurance Exchange policies with other laws currently in effect, such as the Public Health Service Act, State law, and ERISA. Health care cannot trump other laws already in effect.

" According to America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, Page 143, Line 3, Section 246: "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." (see the second source)

Both the House and Senate versions of President Obama’s health care reform plans contain passages explicitly excluding illegal immigrants from receiving federal money to purchase health insurance from either a private or government-run health plan.(see 3rd source: CNSNews)

Quote :

We suspect it's rare that the president gets heckled during a speech to a joint session of Congress, but Rep. Joe Wilson didn't hold back.

"You lie!" shouted the South Carolina Republican. This was in response to President Barack Obama's statements on illegal immigrants.

"There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants," Obama said. "This, too, is false — the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."

So who's right here? Wilson or Obama?

Incidentally, Wilson apologized for the outburst after the speech, but said he still disagreed with Obama's statement.

We've been monitoring claims about health care reform and illegal immigrants for some time now. Most notably, a chain e-mail claimed that page 50 of the House bill gave free health care to illegal immigrants. That page didn't say that. Rather, it included a generic nondiscrimination clause that said insurers may not discriminate with regard to "personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." So we rated the chain e-mail's claim Pants on Fire .

We read all 1,000-plus pages of the health care bill and were struck by the fact that it is largely silent on health care for illegal immigrants. Keep in mind that experts estimated there were 6.8 million uninsured illegal immigrants in the United States in 2007, out of a total of 11.9 million illegal immigrants. Right now, there are laws on the books that require hospitals to treat severely ill people who arrive at the hospital, regardless of immigration status, and we didn't see anything that would change those laws, either.

Most illegal immigrants are also now excluded from Medicaid, the government-run health care for the poor. We didn't see anything that would change that.

One place where the bill does mention immigration status is for "affordability credits." These are tax credits for people of modest means need to buy health insurance. The credits would help them buy insurance on a national health insurance exchange. The bill specifically says that people in the United States illegally are not eligible for tax credits, on page 132, section 242.

Still, given all that, we have heard from people who said that other aspects of reform could benefit illegal immigrants.

One of the most detailed responses was from the anti-immigration group Federation for American Immigration Reform, called FAIR. You can read their statement on the matter on their Web site.

Primarily, they argue that illegal immigrants would be permitted to purchase insurance on the national health insurance exchange because the bill does not include a mechanism for verifying citizenship. So illegal immigrants would have the chance to purchase insurance in the public option, a government-run health care plan that would offer basic coverage at a low price.

FAIR also argues for more robust verification measures for the affordability credit and making sure that illegal immigrant parents won't be able to receive coverage if their citizen children are eligible.

FAIR has a point that illegal immigrants would likely be able to buy insurance on the national health insurance exchange. We don't see anything in the bills that would hinder that. A Congressional Research Service report issued Aug. 25, 2009, confirmed our observation. The House bill "does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens participating in the Exchange — whether the noncitizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently," the report said.

But it's worth pointing out that illegal immigrants participating in the exchange would be paying for their insurance like everyone else. That's similar to the current system — we're not aware of any particular restrictions that stop illegal immigrants from buying private insurance now. Under health care reform, illegal immigrants would be able to buy private insurance or the public option.

When we look at all of this evidence, it seems that health reform leaves in place the status quo on illegal immigration, and certainly does not provide any new benefits particularly for illegal immigrants. We hope to look at this issue more in the days ahead, because some hospitals are concerned about recouping their costs for treating illegal immigrants, and we're curious to know more about that problem and how it might or might not be solved by reform.

The best argument that we find that health reform would help illegal immigrants is that some might be able to purchase the public option — if it passes, and it might not — on the new health insurance exchange. They would purchase that at full cost. Obama said, "The reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally," which Wilson said was a "lie." Actually, Obama can make a pretty thorough case that reform doesn't apply to those here illegally. We don't find the public option argument enough to make the case that Obama "lied." We rate Wilson's statement False.

Link to Article

gringaloca wrote:

So far everything I have read about it shows that illegals will not be covered under the new reform. The only time it mentions that I have seen is that they will be treated if they come into an emergency room, etc. If a person shows up in an ER with their arm torn off, they can't turn them away because they are illegal immigrants. That's just common decency.

It's actually illegal to deny emergency care, and that is a Supreme Court ruling not necessarily a law.